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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Astral Enigma by Andreu (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mark_Chandaue
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Yes in the uk multiplication is mandatory and children start learning their times tables between age 6 and 8. By age 10 most children in the uk can recite their times tables.

Mark
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Looch
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Relick666 wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, MagicAtlas wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Relick666 wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Adrien Lochon wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 25, 2014, Relick666 wrote:

Sorry I can't really give any more details, for $20 it's not expensive for something useful - birthday divinations are around $35 or more. Smile



I agree with you: $20 is not expensive for something useful. And what I'm trying to understand is if Astral Enigma will be useful to me. Which I really want, because great as CloudNine is, personally I still find it a bit hard to pull of, although I can see that a more experienced performer could make it look close to the real deal.

Honestly I'm a bit afraid that this will be just a variation of CloudNine or something very similar. And, if so, $20 for a variation of an effect I got for free is pretty expensive, right? Smile


In cloud9 you ask spectators a lot of times this question: 'how less is this number compared to this other one?" this kind of fishing is never present in Astral Enigma.



Let me say that I'm sure Andreu's method is original and different to mine so it wouldn't be a variation, though his above statement isn't exactly accurate. I ask the first time "By how much, to what degree?" And subsequently simply ask "To what degree?" There are actually only three question phases in total and the 'fishing' relies on an excellent principle by Michael Murray. And at no time does it feel like math is the key to the divination of the birthdate.

At any rate, it appears that the timing of my sharing CloudNine unfortunately conflicted with Andreu's release. It isn't fair to compare his work to mine before anyone has had a chance to review it.

Best,

Atlas


Also if you lead into CloudNine from a star sign revelation then the question is asked only twice and is fully justified within the context of a numerology reading. If you have even basic reading skills the presentation is engaging even without revealing the exact date of birth including the year. You could actually use CloudNine to get o*e a***d under the guise of giving a numerology reading. You could then use the information as the final part of mental epic or Richard Osterlind's AI.

One of the great things about CloudNine is that they never tell you the numbers, these only exist in their head and this prevents it ever seeming like a maths trick. As far as the math is concerned they use the two easiest numbers to multiply by, 1 and 9 and so most can do this in their head, even my 11 year old knows his 9 times table.

Mark


Cool, but it's still not my cup of tea. Smile

Why is multiplication something mandatory?

I insist, you can perform Astral Enigma without the need of it.

Just 2 very different approaches, Looch told me he really liked both effects btw. Smile

Thanks,


Andreu.


Hey bud

that's not exactly true is it. My words were that I wouldnt give you a quote because I couldn't recommend it over Atlas's version which was free and imo a better version. You accepted that in private and I recommended you contact Atlas with a view to perhaps working together on an 'ultimate version' I dislike being put in this position where you publicly use my name to say I enjoyed your idea, I explicitly stated I couldn't put my name to it. I feel disappointed that you would do this Smile
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Relick666
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Yes in the uk multiplication is mandatory and children start learning their times tables between age 6 and 8. By age 10 most children in the uk can recite their times tables.

Mark


Lol, I meant mandatory for the effect.

Nevermind.

Andreu.
Relick666
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Quote:
On Nov 27, 2014, looch wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Relick666 wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, MagicAtlas wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Relick666 wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Adrien Lochon wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 25, 2014, Relick666 wrote:

Sorry I can't really give any more details, for $20 it's not expensive for something useful - birthday divinations are around $35 or more. Smile



I agree with you: $20 is not expensive for something useful. And what I'm trying to understand is if Astral Enigma will be useful to me. Which I really want, because great as CloudNine is, personally I still find it a bit hard to pull of, although I can see that a more experienced performer could make it look close to the real deal.

Honestly I'm a bit afraid that this will be just a variation of CloudNine or something very similar. And, if so, $20 for a variation of an effect I got for free is pretty expensive, right? Smile


In cloud9 you ask spectators a lot of times this question: 'how less is this number compared to this other one?" this kind of fishing is never present in Astral Enigma.



Let me say that I'm sure Andreu's method is original and different to mine so it wouldn't be a variation, though his above statement isn't exactly accurate. I ask the first time "By how much, to what degree?" And subsequently simply ask "To what degree?" There are actually only three question phases in total and the 'fishing' relies on an excellent principle by Michael Murray. And at no time does it feel like math is the key to the divination of the birthdate.

At any rate, it appears that the timing of my sharing CloudNine unfortunately conflicted with Andreu's release. It isn't fair to compare his work to mine before anyone has had a chance to review it.

Best,

Atlas


Also if you lead into CloudNine from a star sign revelation then the question is asked only twice and is fully justified within the context of a numerology reading. If you have even basic reading skills the presentation is engaging even without revealing the exact date of birth including the year. You could actually use CloudNine to get o*e a***d under the guise of giving a numerology reading. You could then use the information as the final part of mental epic or Richard Osterlind's AI.

One of the great things about CloudNine is that they never tell you the numbers, these only exist in their head and this prevents it ever seeming like a maths trick. As far as the math is concerned they use the two easiest numbers to multiply by, 1 and 9 and so most can do this in their head, even my 11 year old knows his 9 times table.

Mark


Cool, but it's still not my cup of tea. Smile

Why is multiplication something mandatory?

I insist, you can perform Astral Enigma without the need of it.

Just 2 very different approaches, Looch told me he really liked both effects btw. Smile

Thanks,


Andreu.


Hey bud

that's not exactly true is it. My words were that I wouldnt give you a quote because I couldn't recommend it over Atlas's version which was free and imo a better version. You accepted that in private and I recommended you contact Atlas with a view to perhaps working together on an 'ultimate version' I dislike being put in this position where you publicly use my name to say I enjoyed your idea, I explicitly stated I couldn't put my name to it. I feel disappointed that you would do this Smile


Hey!

Sorry for mentioning you, thought you wouldn't really mind.

To be honest I felt very motivated to work harder on it after chatting with you, I will be pleased to send you the final version without any sort of compromise.

You're a performer I respect a lot so your opinion is important to me, I hope you can accept my apologies.

Best regards,

Andreu.
IAIN
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What advantage does this have over a simple b****t ind** and a sw***h?
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Looch
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No worries Andreu, I appreciate your apology. I don't mind giving testimonials to things I genuinely like or feel are great ideas. Now get to work on your final improved version and I'll be happy to read it
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David Numen
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On Nov 27, 2014, IAIN wrote:
What advantage does this have over a simple b****t ind** and a sw***h?


This is a point I feel many overlook with a lot of propless mentalism. I don't have this work but it sounds like a few things out there using some kind of arithmetic trick to get the answer. It strikes me that the process involved in such effects is far more memorable than the process of using what Iain suggests or other physical methods. So I tend to wonder what is the point? I appreciate there is a search for an "ideal" or "ultimate" version but I think more thought needs to go into how long the process takes and what the spectator is likely to remember (in many cases I suspect they suspect a number trick more than we would care to admit).
IAIN
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Someone should write a book called "Simple And Direct"...

i agree david, the mechanics are a lovely straight line using traditional means, easy to do, gives you more room to present it in an interesting way...the outcome shouldn't just be "and this is your star sign"..that should just be the beginning...or perhaps the finale...but I don't want the time spent in the presentation to be full of process...
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Mark_Chandaue
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I'm not sure I could manage a 365 billet i****x sure a NW or PW would work but I think it is far stronger if you reveal the date rather than them tell you it and you reveal that your billet was right. Having used ISobellas star literally hundreds of times and watching people in a nightclub queueing up to have Pete Turner tell them their birthday while a guy proclaims "he's psychic, he's psychic" I think I can safely say that when properly constructed and performed these effects do not look like maths tricks.

Mark
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IAIN
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Ah, I misread it, thought it was just their star sign...though it has now given me an idea...
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David Numen
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I think the point is that as far as a spectator is concerned whether we use a p**k, s***h or t**r, or we use some advanced arithmetic, the effect is we get their birthdate. Amazing! Except what are they gonna remember? If you manage the use of the more standard physical methods correctly then you have a strong chance they'll forget writing something down and even if they don't, convincing technique should cover the method. There's little chance of them forgetting a series of arithmetic excercises. Atlas had a free version a short while ago which covered the process with clever patter on numerology but I personally don't think this route is better than the standard physical methods.
Atlas
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On Nov 28, 2014, David Numen wrote:
I think the point is that as far as a spectator is concerned whether we use a p**k, s***h or t**r, or we use some advanced arithmetic, the effect is we get their birthdate. Amazing! Except what are they gonna remember? If you manage the use of the more standard physical methods correctly then you have a strong chance they'll forget writing something down and even if they don't, convincing technique should cover the method. There's little chance of them forgetting a series of arithmetic excercises. Atlas had a free version a short while ago which covered the process with clever patter on numerology but I personally don't think this route is better than the standard physical methods.


David,

You've got an excellent point! I've consistently seen questions raised as to why anyone would perform without props when the props we use are - if employed properly - invisible.

A few weeks ago, I was lecturing at Tabula Mentis with Marc Spelmann, Michael Murray, and Looch. Looch told a story that is similar to something I ran into about three years ago, I don't think he'll mind me sharing it here:

While at a gig, he had approached a table and started into his set. At one point, he asked to work with the person at the table who had the best poker face. There was some discussion, and then the group unanimously put forward one person. Within seconds, Looch realized that his participant was blind. A consummate pro, he worked through the situation admirably - but he was unable to do what he had planned and had to work something out on the fly. Many props aren't appropriate for these types of unexpected situations.

I had a similar experience earlier on in my performing career and I came to value propless methods because they got me through what could have been a very disappointing moment for the participant. In the end, they were smiling and special, included in the group's activities and not at all made to feel like an outsider. With propless methods, all you need is your personality and your participant's mind.

Don't get me wrong - props absolutely have their place. I use them. But I think it is absolutely essential to have one or two propless techniques that you DO like on standby, just in case - especially if you are a paid performer.

Best,

Atlas
David Numen
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Atlas,

I agree, when you come across a situation like that a pro has to be prepared! Many years ago my wife looked after an elderly lady who was practically blind and the lady liked me to come along and chat with her...I tried a few things with her and it was challenging thinking of something she'd appreciate.

I've nothing against the pursuit of the purest form of mentalism but sometimes the objective can get lost and people get carried away with the method without thinking fully about how it looks. I also think people are more suss to these things than we realise which is why the method has to be really good OR (as you have done) a really good presentation disguises the math.

D.
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a 365 billet i****x
Mark


43 would do it. 22 if you go DS.
Relick666
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On Nov 28, 2014, David Numen wrote:
Atlas,

I agree, when you come across a situation like that a pro has to be prepared! Many years ago my wife looked after an elderly lady who was practically blind and the lady liked me to come along and chat with her...I tried a few things with her and it was challenging thinking of something she'd appreciate.

I've nothing against the pursuit of the purest form of mentalism but sometimes the objective can get lost and people get carried away with the method without thinking fully about how it looks. I also think people are more suss to these things than we realise which is why the method has to be really good OR (as you have done) a really good presentation disguises the math.

D.


Hey David,

I fully agree with your point of view: it's what the spectators remember what matters.

Astral Enigma got great reactions from performers and friends in general, this also convinced me that it was worth releasing.

To guys unsure about this I have something to say: perform it first, review it then.

Do the same with all the MindSight routines: perform them, make them your own, then tell me your experiences and how people reacted to them! MindSight has very powerful stuff, which you can perform from 1 to 1000 spectators, easily.

Anyhow, back to Astral Enigma: sure, there's room for improvement. But hey, thanks a LOT for your comments and feedback guys, they have definitely guided me to keep improving a lot more.

Your support has been tremendous. Smile

I don't have words to thank you enough, this is what pushes me to keep working even harder on new ideas and effects. Smile

I see this thread steered away from Astral Enigma to propless mentalism, which is fine: right now, I'm working with my friend Ever Elizalde, on impromptu AAA killer mentalism. We won't release this anytime soon as it requires a ton of work and performance testing to make sure it's top notch! Smile

I feel very, very excited, and I can't freaking wait to present to you guys my next generation of material.

For the moment being Astral Enigma is a success. Smile

Thanks, thanks, thanks again to everyone!!!

PS: If you bought Astral, and are curious to read other releases like: Tribal Telepathy, A Sign of Fate, or any other of my pdfs but NOT MindSight, let me know.
I will be happy to send you a review copy. Smile


Andreu.
Relick666
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Ok, it's been a long time since this thread started.

Just wanted to let you know I reduced the price of this release a bit, so those that are still interested can check it out! Smile

Cheers!
John C
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On Mar 7, 2016, Relick666 wrote:
Ok, it's been a long time since this thread started.

Just wanted to let you know I reduced the price of this release a bit, so those that are still interested can check it out! Smile

Cheers!


Where is it.
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Relick666
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On Mar 23, 2016, John C wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2016, Relick666 wrote:
Ok, it's been a long time since this thread started.

Just wanted to let you know I reduced the price of this release a bit, so those that are still interested can check it out! Smile

Cheers!


Where is it.


Pm'd you.
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