The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalism .. What is it? (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Ah..a rainman type character would be an interesting thing to see...but, to truly pull that off, you would have to be a good actor...and it might feel a bit uncomfortable...maybe...
I've asked to be banned
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.
E.E.
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of E.E.
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.


Because that would destroy the whole premisse of mentalism. You better present yourself as a magician.
I shall see you on the other side.
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Ever Elizalde wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.


Because that would destroy the whole premisse of mentalism. You better present yourself as a magician.

This presupposes that every mentalist presents him/herself to be "The real deal." What if the premise of your performance is to demonstrate how easily people can be deceived?
E.E.
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of E.E.
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Ever Elizalde wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.


Because that would destroy the whole premisse of mentalism. You better present yourself as a magician.

This presupposes that every mentalist presents him/herself to be "The real deal." What if the premise of your performance is to demonstrate how easily people can be deceived?


Then you better use magic tricks.

A lot of mentalism effects/techniques works because people are not focus on catching "tricks" because mentalism is not presented that way.
I shall see you on the other side.
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Iain- Most of the time I use a "method" to accomplish my card memory routine. Other times I do it for real, using Mr. Lorayne's techniques. IMO both presentations are mentalism. They look exactly the same.

But my point remains- there are far more than two sides to the coin.

i think for me, they boil down to the same two roots..and maybe that's all there is! I dunno...

to your audience though bob, its the same thing isn't it - they believe you are giving a memory demonstration...and not something beyond what human memory can do...

its been a long day, probably not explaining myself too clearly...

if I can use the general idea of card calling as an example...
you do it, and its a clear straight line as a memory feat, some people can't believe someone can do that, but they are probably or have heard/seen someone on a day time show demonstrate some kind of memory feat...

chan canasta goes out into the audience during an episode of Parkinson and has people take bunches of cards, one after the other..and then he points to different people and tells them their cards...

both decks have been shuffled (but yours by participants), and batches dished out...but they have different looks and feel...i would say Chan's might look (in my opinion only) like part of his particular brand of "psychomagic" and not like a memory feat...but they both have some commonality too...

and I enjoy watching both, in different ways....

I'm talking in circles now...I'll shut up...
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
What if the premise of your performance is to demonstrate how easily people can be deceived?

then you become a demonstrator...and if you're doing it almost as some kind of public service, then it's indirectly saying "there's a method to this madness, I'm just not telling you what it is...BUT DON'T BE DECEIVED!"...

I wouldn't class that as a mentalism performance either...
I've asked to be banned
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Ever Elizalde wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Ever Elizalde wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.


Because that would destroy the whole premisse of mentalism. You better present yourself as a magician.

This presupposes that every mentalist presents him/herself to be "The real deal." What if the premise of your performance is to demonstrate how easily people can be deceived?


Then you better use magic tricks.

A lot of mentalism effects/techniques works because people are not focus on catching "tricks" because mentalism is not presented that way.

Mentalism effects are magic tricks. Give your spectators some credit. You think they all believe what you do is real?
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
What if the premise of your performance is to demonstrate how easily people can be deceived?


then you become a demonstrator...and if you're doing it almost as some kind of public service, then its indirectly saying "there's a method to this madness, I'm just not telling you what it is...BUT DON'T BE DECEIVED!"...

i wouldn't class that as a mentalism performance either...

If you want people to walk away thinking you have special powers, that's your business. If someone else wants to give another type of presentation, that's their business. Live and let live. Smile Would it help if the performer waited until the end to admit s/he's been doing tricks?
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
You asked a question...i gave my view as an answer!

its not THE answer...

and I make it perfectly clear what people are getting, and its not tricks...
I've asked to be banned
E.E.
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of E.E.
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Ever Elizalde wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Ever Elizalde wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.


Because that would destroy the whole premisse of mentalism. You better present yourself as a magician.

This presupposes that every mentalist presents him/herself to be "The real deal." What if the premise of your performance is to demonstrate how easily people can be deceived?


Then you better use magic tricks.

A lot of mentalism effects/techniques works because people are not focus on catching "tricks" because mentalism is not presented that way.

Mentalism effects are magic tricks. Give your spectators some credit. You think they all believe what you do is real?


I'm just saying, if people believes or not that's not my business. My business as a mentalist is doing my best to make them believe. If you're going to end your show by saying "I'm a fake, I'm just a trickster" then you are not a mentalist. Maybe I'm just a bit old school.
I shall see you on the other side.
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Besides, one performer admitting s/he is a fake doesn't necessarily mean that others aren't the real deal. "The existence of wigs is not evidence for the non-existence of hair."
phillsmiff
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
1699 Posts

Profile of phillsmiff
Philip Escoffey's show 6 Impossible Things Before Dinner and the follow on 6 More Impossible Things were essentially focussed on understanding belief and he fairly explicitly told the audience that he was cheating and that the things he was doing were impossible and they were being deceived. He did pretty well with that, and I would say his show was exemplary mentalism. He didn't say "This is magic tricks." But then it's not like a big mentalist at the top of his game would start off his show by literally saying he accomplishes all of his feats by using a combination of magic and showmanship...
Check out the incredible Neural Miracle playing cards on Kickstarter:
-+: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/phillsmith/incredible-magic-with-the-neural-miracle-playing-cards :+-
Martin Pulman
View Profile
Inner circle
London
3403 Posts

Profile of Martin Pulman
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

Mind Guerrilla wrote:As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.

Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

If you want people to walk away thinking you have special powers, that's your business. If someone else wants to give another type of presentation, that's their business. Live and let live. Smile Would it help if the performer waited until the end to admit s/he's been doing tricks? [/quote]

You seem to be contradicting yourself, Mind Guerrilla. One minute performers can't expose methods, next minute no one has the right to judge someone else's presentation.

If someone wants to expose methods, shouldn't you just "live and let live"?
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, phillsmiff wrote:
Philip Escoffey's show 6 Impossible Things Before Dinner and the follow on 6 More Impossible Things were essentially focussed on understanding belief and he fairly explicitly told the audience that he was cheating and that the things he was doing were impossible and they were being deceived. He did pretty well with that, and I would say his show was exemplary mentalism. He didn't say "This is magic tricks." But then it's not like a big mentalist at the top of his game would start off his show by literally saying he accomplishes all of his feats by using a combination of magic and showmanship...

Sam Eaton used a similar approach when I saw him perform "The Quantum Eye." There was even an ad from a skeptics association in his playbill.
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, phillsmiff wrote:
Philip Escoffey's show 6 Impossible Things Before Dinner and the follow on 6 More Impossible Things were essentially focussed on understanding belief and he fairly explicitly told the audience that he was cheating and that the things he was doing were impossible and they were being deceived. He did pretty well with that, and I would say his show was exemplary mentalism. He didn't say "This is magic tricks." But then it's not like a big mentalist at the top of his game would start off his show by literally saying he accomplishes all of his feats by using a combination of magic and showmanship...


yeah, and that's a massive difference...far more healthy...
I've asked to be banned
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

Mind Guerrilla wrote:As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.

Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

If you want people to walk away thinking you have special powers, that's your business. If someone else wants to give another type of presentation, that's their business. Live and let live. Smile Would it help if the performer waited until the end to admit s/he's been doing tricks?


You seem to be contradicting yourself, Mind Guerrilla. One minute performers can't expose methods, next minute no one has the right to judge someone else's presentation.

If someone wants to expose methods, shouldn't you just "live and let live"? [/quote]
I think that's more like "Live and put a lot of people out of work." Bit of a difference.
Martin Pulman
View Profile
Inner circle
London
3403 Posts

Profile of Martin Pulman
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Besides, one performer admitting s/he is a fake doesn't necessarily mean that others aren't the real deal. "The existence of wigs is not evidence for the non-existence of hair."

And just because Santa at Macy's is a man in a suit and fake beard doesn't mean there isn't a real Santa in Lapland.
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

Mind Guerrilla wrote: As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.

Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

If you want people to walk away thinking you have special powers, that's your business. If someone else wants to give another type of presentation, that's their business. Live and let live. Smile Would it help if the performer waited until the end to admit s/he's been doing tricks?

You seem to be contradicting yourself, Mind Guerrilla. One minute performers can't expose methods, next minute no one has the right to judge someone else's presentation.

If someone wants to expose methods, shouldn't you just "live and let live"?

I think that's more like "Live and put a lot of people out of work." Bit of a difference. [/quote]
I don't see any difference. To me, telling an audience that mentalism is "magic tricks" is a form of exposure.
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2661 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Besides, one performer admitting s/he is a fake doesn't necessarily mean that others aren't the real deal. "The existence of wigs is not evidence for the non-existence of hair."

And just because Santa at Macy's is a man in a suit and fake beard doesn't mean there isn't a real Santa in Lapland.

Thank goodness!
Smile

[quote]On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Someone recently wrote on here that they had expanded mentalism into a new direction: by telling the audience absolutely everything was a magic trick!

Mind Guerrilla wrote:As long as no methods are exposed, I don't see why this can't be as valid a presentation as any other.

Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
If you want people to walk away thinking you have special powers, that's your business. If someone else wants to give another type of presentation, that's their business. Live and let live. Smile Would it help if the performer waited until the end to admit s/he's been doing tricks?

You seem to be contradicting yourself, Mind Guerrilla. One minute performers can't expose methods, next minute no one has the right to judge someone else's presentation.

If someone wants to expose methods, shouldn't you just "live and let live"?

I think that's more like "Live and put a lot of people out of work." Bit of a difference.

I don't see any difference. To me, telling an audience that mentalism is "magic tricks" is a form of exposure.

You know all the secrets. Does that mean you're incapable of enjoying a mentalism performance?
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Soooooooooooooo...
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnny.....
quooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootes.....
I've asked to be banned
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12589 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Regardless of the underlying techniques, when you present mental effects as magic tricks, you're doing mental magic, not mentalism.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalism .. What is it? (15 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.43 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL