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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalism .. What is it? (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
You know all the secrets. Does that mean you're incapable of enjoying a mentalism performance?

I'm enjoying it in a completely different way.

And when Peter Turner named my childhood friend without me opening my mouth, and I had no clue as to the method, my entire world shifted on its axis. I don't think we should rob the audience of that possibility.

Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Regardless of the underlying techniques, when you present mental effects as magic tricks, you're doing mental magic, not mentalism.

That seems blatantly obvious to me, Bob, but I'm beginning to think I've come back to the wrong forum after my spell away. I seem to have returned to a place where everyone is a reader or a therapist or content to expose mentalism as magic tricks.

What the heck is going on?!?
IAIN
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...i won't add to the shock by mentioning my dalliances with surrealist parlour games...
I've asked to be banned
Martin Pulman
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Doesn't anyone want to be a mentalist anymore? Smile
ALEXANDRE
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Brazilian Psychic Entertainer Leonardo Silverio said recently during a Docc Hilford follow-up teleconference call that ...

“There’s no suspension of disbelief in magic, if there was you’d never have to prove the box was empty, you could just look and say ‘the box is empty and here’s the rabbit!’ That’s called a “willing” suspension of disbelief. A “forced” suspension of disbelief is called “belief”, and that’s what you have to do in Mentalism.”
IAIN
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I think people do...

but there's been quite a few different twists and turns the past 3-5 years in mentalism, neal scryer, the urge to be "propless", the rise of the word "organic" (i can sense Bob's hands turning to fists at that word), and a few other things - they've all left their mark on mentalism...

some will stick, some will scar, some will be absorbed...some will have to be scraped off...

blaine, brown and others have changed the perceptions of magic and mentalism...

as much as I love to experiment and set little challenges for myself, I still have (hopefully) a good solid understanding of the classics - and I'll always recommend people trying to self-education as much as possible...and I still love the romance of classic mentalism, both the books and the performers who stick to that kind of style and thinking these days...

i guess if you love something enough, you either never want it to change, or you want it to grow in the best possible way...and sometimes it goes wrong even with the best of intentions...
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Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
You know all the secrets. Does that mean you're incapable of enjoying a mentalism performance?


I'm enjoying it in a completely different way.

And when Peter Turner named my childhood friend without me opening my mouth, and I had no clue as to the method, my entire world shifted on its axis. I don't think we should rob the audience of that possibility.

As long as you don't tell them how it's done, who says you are? If a spectator enjoys him/herself, applauds at the right times, laughs at the right times, congratulates you on a great performance but then says, "Those were good tricks." Do you feel you have somehow failed? Just because you had no clue as to what method Peter Turner used, you did know that there is some sort of method involved, yes?
E.E.
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Everyone has their own religion...
I shall see you on the other side.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

If a spectator enjoys him/herself, applauds at the right times, laughs at the right times, congratulates you on a great performance but then says, "Those were good tricks." Do you feel you have somehow failed?


Yes.

Quote:
Just because you had no clue as to what method Peter Turner used, you did know that there is some sort of method involved, yes?


No, actually. No method seemed possible. He asked me to think of a childhood friend-he named him. I couldn't even begin to comprehend what had just occurred. Which is how I think it should be for audiences.
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

If a spectator enjoys him/herself, applauds at the right times, laughs at the right times, congratulates you on a great performance but then says, "Those were good tricks." Do you feel you have somehow failed?


Yes.

Quote:
Just because you had no clue as to what method Peter Turner used, you did know that there is some sort of method involved, yes?


No, actually. No method seemed possible. He asked me to think of a childhood friend-he named him. I couldn't even begin to comprehend what had just occurred. Which is how I think it should be for audiences.

You're not suggesting that Peter Turner is a witch, are you? Smile

I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record but again I say, as long as you're not revealing the method, the audience does experience those "Wow! That seems impossible! I don't know how he could possibly do that!" moments (without necessarily thinking you're a witch).
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

You're not suggesting that Peter Turner is a witch, are you? Smile


Well, now that I know that particular method, no.

Having said that, I've seen him do stuff since that makes me question my sanity, so who knows what he is! What I do know is he doesn't belittle his work by calling it magic tricks.
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

You're not suggesting that Peter Turner is a witch, are you? Smile


Well, now that I know that particular method, no.

Having said that, I've seen him do stuff since that makes me question my sanity, so who knows what he is! What I do know is he doesn't belittle his work by calling it magic tricks.

I guess this wouldn't be the best time for me to say that one of my definitions of "mentalist" is "self-hating magician." Smile (ducking)
Martin Pulman
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I may be self-hating, but it's not because I'm a magician!

Though I would never belittle magicians. I still love well-performed magic (and well performed magic is better than poorly performed mentalism any day of the week.) But "magic trick" is a pejorative term when applied to mentalism. One that's best avoided, I think.
Mind Guerrilla
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Derren Brown comes right out and says he does magic and he is often introduced/referred to to as a magician. I think we would all agree, though, that he hasn't exactly harmed the art of mentalism. I'm just sayin'.
mastermindreader
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Derren also claims that hypnotism plays a role in what he does.

As to the comment that mentalists are "self-hating" magicians, I respectfully submit that is ridiculous.
John C
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Pete Turner showed us some stuff (no not that) at mindvention. Some of it certainly blew me away. A lot of us were like kids on a candy store.

Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Besides, one performer admitting s/he is a fake doesn't necessarily mean that others aren't the real deal. "The existence of wigs is not evidence for the non-existence of hair."

And just because Santa at Macy's is a man in a suit and fake beard doesn't mean there isn't a real Santa in Lapland.

Now on this one Martin I'm pretty sure that .... well, never mind.
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Slim King
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, ALEXANDRE wrote:
Brazilian Psychic Entertainer Leonardo Silverio said recently during a Docc Hilford follow-up teleconference call that ...

“There’s no suspension of disbelief in magic, if there was you’d never have to prove the box was empty, you could just look and say ‘the box is empty and here’s the rabbit!’ That’s called a “willing” suspension of disbelief. A “forced” suspension of disbelief is called “belief”, and that’s what you have to do in Mentalism.”

I agree 100% ... PEOPLE JUST DON'T "GIVE IT UP" AS EASILY AS OTHERS SEEM TO THINK.....The performance must be Impossible... I like that word!!!!
Six impossible things before dinner ... Wish I'd have come up with that line!!!
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Rocketeer
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 26, 2014, Mind Guerrilla wrote:

You're not suggesting that Peter Turner is a witch, are you? Smile


Well, now that I know that particular method, no.

Having said that, I've seen him do stuff since that makes me question my sanity, so who knows what he is! What I do know is he doesn't belittle his work by calling it magic tricks.


A kid in a magic shop once tipped C0]]erfield's flying to me before I could stop him and I've regretted it ever since. (I know he had the correct method. Since then I've seen the patent application).

I know many pretty much all of the methods of stage illusions but to this day I don't know how Steinmeyer's Origami works. And if I go to my grave not knowing that'll be fine with me.

It's cool when we in the know can be baffled too.
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David Fillary
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I met Peter Turner earlier this year and a room full of magicians were left stunned. His work just appears to have no possible method. He did stuff with cards (as we're magicians, he rarely does it with the public) and he put one card to the side. Then he asked me to name a card. I named a card, and it was that card. STUNNED. And can't fathom a method. He just took a card from my friend's deck.

But I know he can't read minds. I know that. I can't fathom any way he did it, but I know it wasn't through reading my mind. It will bug me for the rest of my life, but I love him for it. The only way it seems possible is for him to have read my mind (and predicted what card I would say before I said it), but I know it's not possible. So I'm left with my mind going in circles. It's the only explanation, but I know it's impossible. That's the way I feel it should be.

I'm not a mentalist, and I know I could never be a mentalist as it has been defined here. If I leave people in a state of full belief, I feel just as bad as a fake psychic reader. I do magic in a predominantly Islamic school (I'm a teacher) and I sometimes have to explain that it is just an illusion, otherwise they automatically assign it to being caused by demons. If a mentalist performed for them, the same conclusion would be drawn, that you must have been communicating with demons. I couldn't leave them with that thought.

Maybe it's just that I want to educate people... I'm all for withholding the method or refusing to comment, but if someone asked me, "can you really seriously read minds?", I would have say "I'll leave that for you to decide", rather than "Yes I can, mindreading is real".
Slim King
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He read your thought....
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ALEXANDRE
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David, you assume Peter can't really read minds, you seem sure of it, how do you know that? Did he tell you? Did you read somewhere that it's "not possible"?
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