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Gbhunter77
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I talked to a ver prominent magician for my sake I hope she does not read this. But the statement made by her was that 4 ace tricks do not connect to the audience(she said the aces do not connect). But there are a tremendous amount of 4 ace tricks by Dai Vernon,Paul Harris and more.
I know that some super simple tricks generate huge response. I mean I did a color change and it blew peple away. The rub a dub vanish works great too. But I disagree with this magician granted I do not have the magic chops she does, but I like 4 ace or 4 of a kind tricks.
Any ideas?
My youtube channel check it out its magic.
im not great but getting better.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMvQIycva0rFOIdArln7lEg
Poof-Daddy
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There is nothing wrong with questioning someones opinion. After all (whoever he/she is, it is still just their opinion). Now that being said. You say "Prominent" so I will assume you know them from a magic club, saw a lecture they did or heard them say it on a dvd or in a conversation....... If this is truly a "Prominent" Card Magician, He/She probably has a good amount of experience as to what works in their case. Maybe 4 ace effects don't go over as well as some of the more construed fancy pattered, more magical effects they do. I personally get sick of seeing 4 ace effects time after time after time but I do not agree that they Do Not Connect With Laymen. (that is, one or two, not a whole 4 ace [or 4 of a kind] show) to me, that is as bad as an "All Packet Trick" show or an "All Gaffed Deck" show. In that spirit, I wholeheartedly agree. Smile

Maybe with better context of the conversation, a better conclusion or explanation could be explained. You don't have to name names, just a little more context as to the conversation and maybe (not that it would really matter a lot) what you mean by "Prominent" Is this a big member of your local club or is this someone we all may have dvds and effects buy? would we ALL know his name and pedigree?
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

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Kabbalah
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Ideas about what?
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Gbhunter77
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Its a big name in magic she invented many many tricks and is on par with Daryl in terms of popularity. She did me a huge favor by entertaining my video. I met her at a lecture. The coment was in reference to my vid but she said it applied to all 4 ace routines. I can link the vid if you so wish.

as far as ideas I was curious what other people thought about 4 of a kind routines.
My youtube channel check it out its magic.
im not great but getting better.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMvQIycva0rFOIdArln7lEg
Poof-Daddy
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Link the vid. PM if you don't want to publicly put it out there.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






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Gbhunter77
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Extract aces with twist: http://youtu.be/HKktG8InaUI

here is the vid. Do not mind the kitty in the back and some of the noise near the end.
My youtube channel check it out its magic.
im not great but getting better.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMvQIycva0rFOIdArln7lEg
Poof-Daddy
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Quote:
On Dec 1, 2014, Gbhunter77 wrote:
as far as ideas I was curious what other people thought about 4 of a kind routines.


Quote:
On Dec 1, 2014, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I personally get sick of seeing 4 ace effects time after time after time but I do not agree that they Do Not Connect With Laymen. (that is, one or two, not a whole 4 ace [or 4 of a kind] show) to me, that is as bad as an "All Packet Trick" show or an "All Gaffed Deck" show. In that spirit, I wholeheartedly agree. Smile


I do not think it was a bad routine, I think it would be stronger to end differently. Maybe the 3C sandwiched among the Aces or all blanks and the 3C, an entire blank deck except the 3C, a different back kicker on the 3c..... The gaffed AC/3C really threw me as a disconnect. I can see where a layperson would "not get it" it is so different from what they are used to seeing, just letting that gaff sink in takes away from the effect that just happened.(it's like how I never show a DB because I don't want the average Joe to know they exist.) I really found that gaff at the end "out of context".

I am 99% sure I know who "She" is now, and I do know personally, she knows her stuff and knows more about performing than many magicians could hope to aspire. And to her credit, her magic is very "out of the box thinking" (where another ace assembly/transformation just adds to the pool so to speak) But again, just because she doesn't like a lot of 4 ace (or 4 of a kind effects) doesn't mean you can't pull some off. Look at how many 4 Ace effects John Bannon or Harry Lorayne have in print. Doesn't mean they do them all (or more than one) every showing, but there is a place for them in magic.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






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Gbhunter77
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I guess you are right. The blank deck would be a mental photography deck. I have decided to give up creating stuff, I will just do what the books say and leave the trick making to the intelligent. After seeing my three vids I have out I realized they are all similar,in other words crap. Ill just stick to the dvd and book patter. Although my favorite trick was cannibal cards and that's a four of a kind. Well at least you guy steered me in the righ direction. But I also I do a smugged card where the paint is wet and the card gets smugged, people like that trick but they know it a gaff. Perhaps I'm just not intelligent enough to see it.
My youtube channel check it out its magic.
im not great but getting better.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMvQIycva0rFOIdArln7lEg
Poof-Daddy
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Cannibal is a four of a kind, but not really. you are using them to do something totally out of the ordinary and there are several different ones out there. I really like Kevin Reylek's version even though it uses a gaff. But the gaff is the bitten off corner of the missionary card inside the belly of the cannibal. If you like "working Blue" Card-shark sells a very dirty x-rated one called effin cannibals. There is also a Worlds Greatest Magic dvd on the plot. (I love the plot too)

One thing I wouldn't do though, is give up on creating. At least you are trying which is more than most. I have created a couple effects that I have not shared simply because they are mine and fit my personality and show. All these great creators started out with some duds and many hit more duds along the way. Get ideas, work them out, ask for help and or constructive critisism along the way.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






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Gbhunter77
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Will try my best
My youtube channel check it out its magic.
im not great but getting better.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMvQIycva0rFOIdArln7lEg
Vlad_77
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Finally checked out your videos and you shouldn't give up creating. I think there is some potential in those routines. Something to think about: Sir Paul McCartney said in an interview a few years ago that when he and John started writing songs, they actually threw out approximately 150 of them as they felt they were not good songs. Imagine if the greatest songwriting team in rock history had given up. I shudder at the thought.

All due respect to your prominent friend but I wonder if she has ever had this conversation with the likes of Harry Loryane or John Bannon. Both have created stunning routines with fours of kind - Aces and otherwise. In my personal experience ,I have found that these types of routines play very WELL for audiences. I'm not sure I get her argument about fours of a kind "not connecting." The cards themselves cannot "connect." It is the performer's job to make those pieces of pasteboard become players in something magical.

Best,
Vlad
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Dec 10, 2014, Vlad_77 wrote:
The cards themselves cannot "connect." It is the performer's job to make those pieces of pasteboard become players in something magical.


As usual, Vlad is spot on here.

Any chance you misinterpreted the comment? I'm wondering if it was meant more along the lines of "there are so many four ace tricks out there, why another one"? Either way, there are a number of four ace classics that people seem to enjoy -- MacDonald's Aces, Dr. Daley's Last Trick, Twisting the Aces, etc.

Do people need to "connect" with the aces in order to shout "NFW" when they first see NFW?

Also, sometimes "big names" = "big egos", and they may be dismissive of any work that's not their own.
Then there are people out there who are unscrupulous and will see something, say it's bad, then run out and publish to claim it as their own.

I'm not saying either is true in this case, but no one is right all of the time, and in this case, I think they're flat wrong.
magicfish
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She is incorrect. It is magic that counts. Weather it's a matchstick, a fork, a deck of cards, or the four aces, if it is magical to the onlooker, you have succeeded.
Magic transcends the props. If it doesn't, it isn't magic.
Poof-Daddy
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As I stated in my first response, everybody has an opinion and what works for one person may totally flop for another. And later, although "I" don't like to see an entire act of all 4 Ace routines there are too many to count by Bannon and Lorayne alone. Just because this "Big Name" magician doesn't think they connect certainly does not mean that it is true. I have personally, out of all the card effects I have ever done, Have gotten the most consistent and joyful reactions from Twisting the Aces followed by Dr Daley's Last Trick. BOOM - 2 4 Ace tricks in a row (although they play as one with multiple kickers). I also think his video is good, the ending was a little off to "me" and I explained that. I also encouraged you GB, both here and via our PM conversation to NOT give up on creating. You are much further along than several hundred who lurk here on a daily basis and never post a thing. Cudos to ya (the members here can often be very harsh, belittling and downright mean) (In fact I have seen a couple brand new people pretty much run off the Café by insensitive folk being overcritical of their posted vids) Stay the coarse man. You do have talent, you just need to get the rest of your life going in the right direction and you will see that in yourself again.

I found out 3 years ago that I had cancer and it devistated my world. I sunk into a very dark place myself and at times I re-visit that place. Help is out there, you can go to see a therapist and they can't not see you just because you can't pay. I am on disability for my cancer and qualify for help with my medical bills even with my wife working full time + overtime. If it is just you and you are on government help, you more than likely qualify. They can help you through the process at just about any county mental health agency in the US. But You have to take the first step my friend. I assure you, It is a long row to hoe, but in the end, well worth it. I am currently in my 2nd remission in 3 years (although that sounds great... It also means I have had it twice in those same 3 years) I suffer from so many after effects, at times I wish I just had the cancer. It was easier to deal with at times.

AS FOR THIS THREAD, IN FAIRNESS TO THE VERY FEW PROMINENT FEMALE MAGICIANS OUT THERE I will not "betray your trust from the pm conversation we had" but I feel it should be noted (without naming names as I know why you don't want to "openly out" him) It was a "pretty prominent" Male Magician and not one of our few females who get a bad enough rap without us speculating that they put you out like that. Again, I know who he is per our PM and wouldn't give his ego the time of day. Although he has several products, he is not near being in the same light as a "Gentleman" such as Daryl. As I say, I am not calling you out about this but people are beginning to speculate and zero in on a certain prominent female magician whom I certainly have the utmost respect for. (as well as I will respect your wishes and not name him on this thread).

Anyway GB, listen to Vlad. He is a great person and very intelligent, I knew him long before our re-meeting on the Café when he was a demonstrator at my local brick and mortar. Get some help and keep the faith. You are only as good as you let yourself be. and like my sig says "Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live" That works in your situation too, don't fall into the doom and gloom so bad that you forget all the wonderful things out there. Magic has been the ONLY THING IN MY LIFE that has kept me halfway sane the last three years. (Therapy and controlled meds were the other half, but we do what we need to do).

Good luck and take care Smile You may feel empty and alone, but you are not.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure

Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






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Pepsi Twist
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Even if there's a million 4 ace tricks out there already (a conservative guess???) there still might be one that's quite right for you.
There's no harm in trying to create new effects (or methods for old effects) and it can only help you understand your magic more, so even if your results haven't been very good (I haven't watched the videos so I can't comment) as long as you're enjoying it, carry on!
Harry Lorayne
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I've done an hour or more of JUST four-ace items to very good effect, cheers, and loud applause.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Atom3339
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Hmmm, Aces have the strongest visual impact and are considered the most powerful cards in the deck. Maybe those factors have something to do with this.
TH

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RogerTheShrubber
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Amateur opinion here, but four ace tricks are like any other - they will resonate with people depending on a.) the quality of the presentation, and b.) the spectators' attitude towards that sort of trick. Taking myself as an example, I'm always happy to see a four ace trick I've never seen before if the presentation is good. It's not my favorite kind of trick, but I'm always interested in seeing a good one.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter who is performing a spelling trick - I can't stand them and would watch only out of politeness and amateur curiosity. But you'll never hear me say spelling tricks don't resonate just because I don't like them.
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