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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Good spectator as mindreader effects? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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funsway
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Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Try this experiment. After you have found spectator very adept/sensitive to using a pendulum, have them sit facing the audience with you behind.

You hold up a card that the spectator cannot see but the audience can - and they are instructed to think only of the image displayed.

One card has a back-forth arrow and the other a circle. As the audience focuses on the shape the spectator's pendulum will swing in sympathy.

The Spectator does not have to be coached or understand how to "be influenced" by the audience, but they subconsciously will be.

is this "mind reading?" No, just a demonstration that every person is more aware of subliminal clues than they realize. They do not have to be 100% to be amazing -- often the pendulum will do nothing.

Would you be a Mentalist do demonstrate this since there is no "trick" or "secret method" and you are not taking credit?

I would never do this for paying audience, but that is just me.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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John C
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Eternal Order
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Making the spectator the mindreader is based on guilt of the performer.

It goes back to the old Magician problem they try to get away from of "see what I can do and you can't " and they try and compensate by saying "here you will be the magician."

Magician's guilt.

That's all I have for now.
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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2014, funsway wrote:
Isn't all Contact Mindreading like Helstromism a "the spectator has the power" demonstration?


No. It has always been presented as the mentalist reading the thoughts of the participant. It's the performer, not the participant, who succeeds in finding the hidden object. The only credit the participant gets is for his/her ability to concentrate and to focus clearly on what he wants the performer to do.
funsway
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When I used to do this quite a bit back in the 60's based on coaching from Arnold Furst I quickly learned there was more going on than a demonstration of my power or ability.
There were too many comments afterwards of the "we did it" variety. The audience believed they we were active participants in the "miracle."

So, I agree with your, "always presented" in a general way, but am not sure the audience views it that way. Which is why I asked the question.

I asked Arnold about this and he spoke at length about the elements of hope and fear in a spectator -- and the responsibility of a performer to recognize the "affect" of what they do as well as the "effect."

I have written of this over the years and few performers have expressed any interest.

But, I changed my presentations to include the idea that the audience was giving me permission to demonstrate a phenomenon in which their assistance was critical.

The selected "medium/assistant" was only a representative and focus of the will of the audience. (not "always," Bob)

The number of times in which I was able to drop the Assistant's hand and continue the demonstration alone increased dramatically -- over 50% of the time - out of perhaps twenty demonstrations.

I asked Arnold about this. He said, "Once you get over any fear of failure only success is left." What had changed was my willingness to "take a chance" without any concern over "didn't work."

I believe it is the audience in a gestalt energy sense that guided my actions and insured success -- in their eyes any demonstration of "more than ordinary" was success.

They empowered me and I them. Others may have a different view of why my success increased -- including my actually having some strange power. Family members refused to participate any more.

..............

Now, your statement includes the word "mentalist" while mine does not. Since "Mentalist" implies "for entertainment" this effect should be of the "i have the power" variety -- and your statement is correct.

But, I am going to suggest that my statement is also correct. If the audience does not grant you the power/permission there is no performance and no success.

I choose to believe that the affect of Helstromism is very high -- even 100%. The performer may claim credit but each spectator knows that they were involved in a special way.

This experience is one reason I decide not to "go pro" with magic as a career. I found other ways to "use my power." Empowering other folks can also be rewarding.

Thanks for responding.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Mark_Chandaue
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If presented properly spectator as mind reader effects can lend credibility to the rest of the effects. I use Pete Turners your intuition as an answer to "what am I thinking". I respond "it doesn't work like that, I can't just dip into your head any time I feel like it, it's a co-operative process. Maybe I can demonstrate by helping you to read my mind. If I told you pin had no zero's in do you think you could guess it? No, of course not, the chances are 10,000 to 1. Don't guess, I'm going to project the digits into your mind one at a time, just relax and open your mind, if you don't resist you should be able to receive them ...... Etc.

Mark
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Mike Ince
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How about "spectator upstages the mindreader?" Sounds like a bad premise, I guess. If the OP reworded "spectator as mindreader" to "performer as mind-controller", we'd be on the same course, running in the same direction. We probably already are. Just a matter of semantics, but words are important whether we're scripting or speaking (and I'm an English Major wannabe. They wouldn't take me because I used the word "wannabe").

When I perform Osterlind's Watch Routine, it's obvious that it wouldn't happen without my facilitating role. I used to facilitate a drawing duplication between two participants that fits the genre. PK Touches does, too. Doug already mentioned his effect, another favorite. I don't own Ken Dyne's Whisper but I know a similar unpublished effect. You might look into Whisper. None of the things I've listed uses a stooge, but if you're willing to use one I wouldn't criticize you for it.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
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