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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » The Muscle Pass? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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KenRyan
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I have a couple of questions about the Muscle Pass, which I am trying to learn - I don't know if I'm doing it right. It was on a list (at coinvanish.com) of fundamentals for coin magic, so I've been working on it. I think I have the classic pam down fairly well (I'm still very new, so lot of practice is still needed). But I don't want to put dozens of hours of practice into this if I'm not executing it correctly.

Would it be considered exposure to talk about the details here? Or perhaps to put a link to a video showing what I am doing at this stage?

Also, is this move anywhere in Bobo, perhaps under a different name?

Cheers!

Ken
daniel116
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It will make it really easy to help you and correct you if you put a video of what you're doing right now.
Keep practicing, beginning coin magic is difficult but it becomes much easier as you progress, you just gotta work on the fundamentals.
If you're looking for a DVD for beginners in coin magic I recommend David Stone's Basic Coin Magic (vol.1), it will take you from complete beginner to intermediate level in no time.
Good luck!
Remillard
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Ken;

Much like yourself, I've just recently started with coins so treat my advice accordingly. From what I've seen, the MP is a fairly advanced coin move that, while nice to know, is not necessary for a lot of routines. I've decided to gve it a miss for now and concentrate on practicing smoothly getting into, out of, various concealments. There's a lot you can do with simple productions and vanishes that will amaze and entertain almost any audience. One thing I've learned over my journey in magic is that I have to resist the urge to run when I should be trying to get better at walking. (Hope this makes sense.)

Regards from another new(ish) student of the art.
David Fillary
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Agree with Remillard above. I now use the MP quite a lot, but it is not for beginners, as you will have to wait a few months regardless before you get anything out of it (your hand muscles have to develop).

But a few tips if you do try:
- It's in a different position to classic palm. This was my biggest hurdle. Once I realised this, I was suddenly able to get that pop I'd seen others do. So experiment to find the correct spot for you. My spot is different from the pictures on Coinvanish, and so is my classic palm.
- The coin fires off pretty much vertically. Your thumb pad has to get over it and it fires up like pushing a spring down on a table and letting it ping past your finger.

They're the two things that helped me start, as for ages I couldn't get that fundamental "pop" off of the hand. Once you get that, practise it little and often and the distance will increase.
David Neighbors
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And When you it it! Don't MOVE The lower Hand!!! If it Comes Up at all Layman Will say You just tossed It Up!!!
David Neighbors



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David Fillary
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Yep, I draw as much attention to the other hand as possible. Try to make it look like the top hand is drawing it up. They should be suspecting magnets more than the lower hand (by that I mean it should look like it is a pulling force, rather than a pushing force).

That's just for the coin that falls up though. There are lots of other uses that you can experiment with once you get the basics of it.
David Neighbors
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Yea I have a few Things With it In my hardbound book! Smile
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daniel116
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Gotta disagree with you guys.
I've learnt the MP when I was just a step above complete, 100% beginner to coins, and so after getting some confidence with the coins, I already had a decent MP and I didn't have to go through that "leap'.
People say the MP is an advanced move but I disagree. The MP is like lifting weights, if you keep doing it, you're gonna get better at it, it doesn't require any thinking (the move itself, not it's applications), unlike say a retention pass, which requires a lot of individual thinking and re-thinking.
What I'm trying to say is, learn the MP now, it's as good a time as any.
Daniel.
feher
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WOW ! I have been gone to long. They consider the MP a fundamental of coin magic ?
For me its a cute move. But not something I will ever do within a routine. I'm not saying not to learn it. But don't get to frustrated if you don't get it right. You can still perform unbelievable coin magic without it.
Good luck. Remember have fun.
Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
David Fillary
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Daniel,

You certainly can learn the MP as a beginner, but I would agree with Feher and not focus on it at the beginning.

When you start out, it will be like the coin roll. Much harder than anything else you will perform, and a lot less reason to do it yet.

The move may be relatively easy, but its appilications are not, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uhkDeYTdz4

I would say it would be better for the time spent on the MP to be focused on the retention pass instead, as it will be used a lot more in routines and beginners don't have as much time to spare on sleights they won't perform with. The dozens of hours of practice the OP mentioned would be better spent elsewhere.

David
BeThePlunk
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Question about the best size coin to use for MP. Should an average hand use a coin the size of US dollar, or will a half dollar do? Is bigger better in this case?
bdekolta
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It is not in Bobo buy it is in Buckley. I do several routines with the MP. Even have a film of me discussing one of the routines with Bobo.

I found the retention pass only took a few minutes or so. There is a lot to doing an NO well. That is what takes the time. Agree with David. If you are making the coin jump up you should keep both hands perfectly still and have no visible squeezing of the coin.
daniel116
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I think it's kind of odd that someone asks for help in learning a move and instead of getting help, he's being told not to learn the move.
J-Mac
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Quote:
On Dec 8, 2014, daniel116 wrote:
I think it's kind of odd that someone asks for help in learning a move and instead of getting help, he's being told not to learn the move.


That's because he says he is a beginner and the MP is definitely not a beginner's move, regardless of what you think. Plus it is a rarely used sleight in actual coin magic routines.

Jim
David Neighbors
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It's Not that he should not learn it! It's just that There is a lot of Outer Stuff He should Learn 1 St.!

All things in order! Smile
David Neighbors



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Ray Haining
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The muscle pass became "the latest thing" for a while. I believe it is, relative to other moves, fairly new, but I'm not sure about that. As far as I know, it was popularized by John Cornelius who used it to do "the coin that falls up," which is more of a stunt than a trick. I've never seen a routine where the move added anything special, and it seems to me that, in many routines, gravity, instead of the pass, can be used just as well.

Now watch: Fifty million people will come on and say that they use the muscle pass to do the most incredible magic that, otherwise, could not be done without it. Somehow, I doubt it, though.
magicfish
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James Ceilen
David Fillary
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Quote:
On Dec 8, 2014, daniel116 wrote:
I think it's kind of odd that someone asks for help in learning a move and instead of getting help, he's being told not to learn the move.


If he had asked to learn Harada Hold, and couldn't classic palm, I think everyone would advise him to focus on the CP instead.



The coin that falls up gets some of the biggest screams out of all my magic. It looks like real magic and like I said, the focus is on the receiving hand. People suggest I must have magnets in my hand.
It's just a stunt if there is no presentation with it.

However, I'd want a beginner to have mastered vanishes, switches, changes, shuttle passes etc. before it's even thought of. And also to have a good few working routines, before a lot of time is devoted to one sleight.
Ray Haining
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Agreed.
David Neighbors
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And as to where it came see Arthur Buckley's book Principles and Deceptions! Pg. 48. " the Muscle Pass with one Coin! "

It was a Secret Production, Before John Cornelius Started Playing with it! Smile
David Neighbors



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