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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Pop,
I asked before and will ask again. Do you feel those individuals that carried out the torture and those who knew about it and did nothing should all be punished. If so what punishment should be doled out? Do you feel a death sentence, imprisonment? What do you feel they deserve for torturing a prisoner to disclose information in order to protect the United States? Because torture after all is a war crime. So what is their just punishment? Also you must be fair and find out and have an investigation of all torturing and go back and even if it saved lives and helped save combat troops, those who gathered this information should also be punished according to you. Again what punishment, death, or imprisonment. I would also have to assume (I know what assume does) but I believe that these individuals did not take it on their own to inflict torture but it came from higher up. So how far do we go up? Also knowing torture is going on and one has the power to stop it should they also be prosecuted if they did nothing? Again ask where do you draw the line? I get it...it is a war crime and it is man's inhumanity to man...But honest to God I feel that in some cases it is necessary. Wow! not easy to say, but I said it.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Thankyou for your honesty, aces. I think people are taught to feel that. It's mentioned in some of what I've posted, if not all of it.
Quote: On Dec 10, 2014, magicalaurie wrote: |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Blair and Bush ought to be hung by the neck until dead at Nuremberg.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 10, 2014, tommy wrote: Tommy, Put down that bottle. I mean on the table...stop drinking from it.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
Gee, we got to 7 pages without anyone calling anyone a Nazi, and tommy had to go and ruin it.
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 10, 2014, acesover wrote: There are no justifications for torture in International Law. Laws that we as a nation have agreed to... It is not for me to decide what the punishments should be. It is punishable under our own statutes, and the punishments are outlined. I would hope that we would punish our own when they commit war crimes. We didn't hesitate to punish other nation's war criminals. It is for our courts to provide justice. If not, then the international courts should. |
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FatherWilliam57 New user Beaver, PA 73 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 10, 2014, acesover wrote: Harry Truman had a sign on his desk reading "The Buck Stops Here." Jimmy Carter asked the Truman Library to loan it to him during his administration. Perhaps it should have remained in the Oval Office all along...nailed to the desk. If someone believes breaking the law (in this case, torture) is "necessary" for some reason (say, what they perceive is a "higher good"), then they should also be willing to pay the consequences for that action when all is said and done.
The Rev. William B. Henry, Jr.
"If this be magic, let it be an art..." - Leontes (Winter's Tale, Act 5, Scene 3) |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 10, 2014, 0pus wrote: Still quite an accomplishment. lol
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
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On Dec 10, 2014, magicalaurie wrote: Absurd. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Is there anyone who seriously questions the notion that criminals should be punished (i.e., incarcerated and/or fined) for crimes against persons or property? The topic of this thread is torture, not punishment in general.
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
I think it's all cut from the same cloth, Bob.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Not really. Are you suggesting that it is wrong to punish convicted criminals for their crimes, if the purpose of that punishment is to deter future crimes and to protect society?
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Seems you haven't been reading my posts, Bob.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I have been reading them, Laurie and I agree that violence begets more violence. All I disagree with is conflating the terms "torture," as defined in international conventions to which the U.S. is a signatory, and "punishment" as defined under the US Constitution (which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment- like torture, for instance).
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
One's "legal". That don't impress me much. Marshall said it took a lot of repeating and I believed him. Interesting. One more time, sir.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 10, 2014, Pop Haydn wrote: During war is it ok for a sniper to take out a gun runner or a high ranking officer while not in battle, or is that considered a war crime? I honestly don't know. Again I feel that the term Fog of War is applicable here when it comes to many of these issues. War is not just about killing. It is also about surviving. Is it proper to kill with gas or chemical weapons? Nations say NO. However when losing and their back is against the wall, I feel that most will use whatever weapons they have such as a "doomsday weapon" because at that point it is survival and if you are not going to survive you are going down with me. Again I use the phrase, FOG OF WAR. It changes so much of the rules if you wish to call them that. Seems strange that we can decide to have wars then decide how we should kill one another in order to be fair. Seriously, does that make any sense?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
There's a very reasonable question. Thankyou for asking, aces. Getting to the heart of the matter, now, I think.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
"Fog of war" doesn't cover what happens in torture chambers in American military facilities where actions are undertaken calmly and deliberately.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On Dec 10, 2014, tommy wrote: And just what will that do for the folks at Nuremberg? if you suggested freeing Manuel Noriega and investigating his abduction in your post that might have struck a nerve
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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