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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts 
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This guy is an inspiration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEBZReXChoA I've been lucky so far in that I haven't been arrested, or harrassed too often. I carry copies of the laws in NYC protecting busking, as well as copies of articles showing that buskers were vindicated after having been falsely arrested. These have helped the few times that I have interacted with law enforcment. I've been polite and they've eventually agreed. I have a great fear of being arrested but if it came down to it I will stand my ground. In my opinion our rights are being attacked systematically. Many say this is a small issue but the opposite is true. Every time we comply when we know our rights are being violated we become part of our own problem. Know your rights and stand up for them. If not future generations will suffer. If individual rights are not protected then society as a whole has no rights and no protection.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Bluesman Special user Florida 567 Posts
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Wow! That's not right
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Paddy Inner circle Milford OH 1571 Posts
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Several things misreported here. 1. The cop did NOT arrest the musician, he EJECTED him from the subway station. BIG Difference. 2. A smart mouth will get one's ass in trouble every time. The busker was being smart with the cop which is asking for trouble.
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silvercup Loyal user 223 Posts
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"The" cop didn't do anything, well besides assult him with his own guitar and initiate further problems for the man.
Several policemen did things. From the vid we do not know if an arrest was made. How dare someone stand up for their rights! What a smart mouth!! Notice how the one who grabs him is not in uniform similar to the Eric Garner incident. |
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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Over the course of 15 years, I've only been asked to "move on" about 6 or 7 times, and only one of those times being asked by a shop owner rather than the police. I've always been polite about it. As a result, the police in my area know that I'm not a troublemaker, and that I understand they aren't just out to get me or ruin my work for the day or stomp on my human rights. My courtesy has even resulted in me being the only performer who's welcome to work in front of certain businesses in my area (sometimes they'll even see me out on the sidewalk down the way and invite me to set up in front of their business). I get along with them all just fine.
Mind you, this is in one of the cities in the U.S. that has been infamous for its police corruption, and has a long history of police violence towards "undesirables"... meaning my kind, in many cases. And also a long history of business owners despising buskers to the point of creating public drama far above and beyond that which was necessary, simply out of their anger and loathing for them. It's important to know your rights and to stand up for them. But it's also important to be courteous and respectful, clean and professional, and willing to compromise on occasion. Being rude to the police is a sure-fire way to ensure that you'll never be welcome, and that they'll see you as a problem. And in the case of my "fair" city, once they've marked you as a troublemaker that's it. You're done. They'll go out of their way to make your life a living hell in any way possible, every time they see you set up. Better to have their respect, I think. When the cops say hello to me with smiles on their faces, and even stop to watch my show and put money in my hat, it tends to make me think I'm doing something right. Especially when everyone else is complaining about getting run off all the time. And there's no telling what the guitar player did earlier in the day or before that happened to get their attention and have that happen to him. Not every busker is a nice guy who's just minding his own business. I've seen them swear at people for not stopping, throw things at people who listened for a moment and didn't tip, etc. We have a lot of "buskers" here who are simply street junkies and runaways with guitars, and they're a huge problem. They carry guitars because then they can claim to be "street performers." They make all of us look bad, and they don't care about anything but getting money for booze or drugs. People have been stabbed by them for nothing but walking by and not giving them money when they demanded it.
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2014, Paddy wrote: 1. He WAS arrested. The arrest was later voided when, once again, the police had to admit they acted against the rights of a citizen. Did you not see where he was forcibly hand cuffed? Did you not look at the related videos? The officer had no cause to eject him from the subway. Everything that happened after that was the fault of the officer. Btw the officer was reprimanded and was 're-trained'. In other words, he was made to go and actually learn the laws he is tasked with upholding. SMH. 2. If you think that standing up for oneself and insisting that your rights are respected is 'being smart', then you are part of the problem. Have a nice day.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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DonDriver Inner circle 1790 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2014, NYCTwister wrote: DITTO! |
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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I'm glad that at least the offending officer was made aware of his wrongness in getting physical. So often I've seen cops just walk up and take the nightstick to someone out of the blue without warning, and get away with it...
There are times when they can act in quite an unbecoming fashion, seriously. Kind of hard to convince them you're in the right when they're in the middle of beating the snot out of you, though. Once the rage hits, there's usually no way of stopping it.
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2014, Mortimer Graves wrote: What he was made aware of is the fact that his understanding of the law is wrong. He became physical when the busker refused to comply. First by grabbing his arm, and then later by pulling the guitar off, striking him in the face. To me the officer, like too many others these days, became angry when an order he gave wasn't complied with. The saddest part was when the officer couldn't comprehend that he was contradicting himself. THE POLICE OFFICER LACKED THE CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND THE LAW. To me this is what is most dangerous. When you are an officer of the law you do not have any rights other than the rights that we all have. What you have is a great responsibility, one you chose to bear willingly and must live up to. IMO the busker was lucky that it was known that the incident was being filmed. As we've seen too often things can go horribly wrong when it isn't. Bottom line is when the rights of one are trampled on the rights of all are diminished. Each incidence dimishes those rights. Things that constantly diminish dissappear eventually.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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I can definitely agree with that.
I've had more than one police officer friend over the years, and what they generally agree with is that they actually have fewer rights while on duty than we do. The ones who understand their jobs know that they're supposed to be there for us, that we're citizens like anyone else, and that their job is to protect us and our rights. Even (or especially) if an officer has a bad attitude, I'm cooperative. I've been beaten up by the cops before (in another state), and it's no fun (those retractable steel batons hurt like a mother). And I'd rather avoid it than deal with it in the courts and make them all into enemies. But if I know they have no reason to move me on (and they don't look like they're looking for an excuse to take their frustrations out on me), I'll politely ask them to show me on paper where it says they have the right to tell me to leave. It's important to know the laws of your performing area, as well as your rights. If it's to make their job easier though, like clearing the way for a parade, or if I'm interfering with someone else's legitimate business or causing problems for anyone, I move on, and courteously. Better to be the good guy, then any future dealings with them go much more smoothly, and often they'll take your side if they know you're right. If for no other reason than the fact that you respect them and the job they do and they know you're one of the good guys.
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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gallagher Inner circle 1168 Posts
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One of these guys has the hardest job in New York City,.
but in all honesty, ....I'm not really sure which one. gallagher |
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Iron Butterfly New user 66 Posts
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There is an old saying. Would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 12, 2014, NYCTwister wrote: Not that I'll ever busk in NYC, but I am curious, what was the code that the young man was reading to the police officer which stated that he had the right to busk? For that matter, what are the "laws" that you carry that state the same? (Are they the same as the young man was quoting?) **** Iron Butterfly, I remember a line from "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" where the planet engineer Slartibartfast tells Arthur Dent; "I'd much rather be happy than right." ARTHUR: "And are you?" SLARTIBARTFAST: "No. That's where it all falls down, you see."
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Magician Shaun Special user Huntington BCH, CA 924 Posts
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The problem with standing up for your rights in a situation like this is that you are going to spend the night in jail, GUARANTEED. The reality is that you can never, ever, get that time back. When a police officer is unsure of the law or just plain wrong, I have found that asking to speak to a supervisor makes a world of difference. Often the supervisors know the rules on things like this better than the average "beat cop" but that isn't always the case.
When I first started busking my favorite spot in Atlanta, I got harassed by the same 2 2nd shift officers right around 4:00pm every day. I did my research on the law and contacted the supervisor for that area. I explained what was going on and he assured me that I was doing nothing wrong and that if I was harassed in the future that I should request a supervisor and it would be handled. The next time I was bothered I did just that and haven't had an issue since. The first time it happened I went ahead and packed up and went home. I then called the police department and spoke to the supervisor. One particular incident sticks out in my mind. The officer told me that if I didn't comply she was going to write me a ticket. She said she didn't care what the law said, if she wrote the ticket I would have to appear in court. She said she was retired and had plenty of time to go to court. She then asked if I had the time. I obliged her and just avoided trouble. Now, I go to that same spot and I never have any issues at all. I also have avoided spending a night in jail for something that wasn't even wrong. I agree 1000% with standing up for your rights. I also believe a smart warrior chooses his battles wisely to ensure victory. |
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MagiCol Special user Dargaville, New Zealand 929 Posts
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Good relations with security folk - private, or cops - and other folk who are regularly on the street, including other buskers - is a good thing to foster. When I started out busking I used to be scared that I'd be approached by security folk about performing without a license. It hasn't happened in the six years of part-time busking I do at my regular city.
Meantime, in that city the street performing rules have changed a bit and things continue to go along smoothly for me in spite of me 'breaking' tne rules. I don't want to get into discussion here about people's opinons regarding 'permission' but I do know that good relations - however a busker manages is, is very important.
The presentation makes the magic.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2014, ed rhodes wrote: Hey Ed, The subway busker was quoting from the NYC Subways own rule book. If you listen closely you can hear the officer reading, and misinterpreting, the rule. As for myself what I do isn't so much performing as creating "art" and so I'm protected by the expressive matter laws. My problem with the officer in the video is that, IMO, he didn't care what the law was. Also IMO, he reacted the way he did because he wasn't being obeyed. I've watched a few videos of what I consider brutality by law enforcement and it always seems to me that they feel that the biggest offence was that they were being questioned instead of obeyed without question. Don't get me wrong, I have GREAT respect for LE and the job they do. However that doesn't mean that I don't recognize that they are human and like any group of humans there are some bad among the vast majority of good ones. Having said all that I agree that the best way to go about doing what we do is to be polite and respectful, as are most of the authority figures I've dealt with. As far as whether I'd rather be right than happy, I don't think that they are mutually exclusive when it comes to our rights. I remember hearing somewhere that our rights were designed to protect our pursuit of happiness.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2889 Posts
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I couldn't make out what they were saying. Where is this NYC Subway Rule book? Can I find it online? I'm not being snarky, I really want to look at it.
I did find this; http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm that might be it. I'll have to re-watch the video with the sound turned up.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts
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Hey Ed
1050.6c The following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority, provided they do not impede transit activities and they are conducted in accordance with these rules: public speaking; campaigning; leafletting or distribution of written noncommercial materials; activities intended to encourage and facilitate voter registration; artistic performances, including the acceptance of donations;
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Posted: Dec 12, 2014 11:31 am 
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