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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Lineage of Mentor and Students...for Magic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

GreenKnight33
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Hey Everyone,

Is there somewhere a reference that provides a lineage of sorts between past master magicians and their students? And by students I mean those that were directly in mentoring relationships with the magician, not just reading their books/videos, etc. So a real long term mentoring relationship where they saw each other on a regular basis.

For example something like Charlier Miller....>Bob White....>Jarod Kopf

Or Marlo....>Malone
Ortiz.....>Ladanye

As you can see I have a very shallow background or depth, so looking to get further back. As I read more and start to find magicians I have a similar view of magic with (or handling style I enjoy), I’m always curious who they sat under and then tracing that back.

I’m new to magic (about 1.5 years in), so still wanting to understand the connections between the past and the present, and this to me would be helpful, but not sure if this has been replicated elsewhere. And I realize as well that any ONE magician could have a pretty complicated lineage tree.

Thanks in advance.
GreenKnight
Aus
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Try Wikipedia or for something a bit more specific like magicpedia at: http://geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Main_Page

Magically

Aus
GreenKnight33
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Hey Aus!,

I hope you are well!

I've checked that out before and the info is frankly very weak. Go there and check out Bob White and Bill Malone. Not much info, not even mention of who they were mentored by etc.

Most of where I've picked this up was through the Magic Newswire podcasts with Dodd Vickers. So perhaps I'll just need to piece this together bit by bit.

I would have thought was magic having such a strong 'passed down' from teacher to student mentality, that these pathways would somewhere have been well marked and notated. I'll keep digging.

Thank you and have a great week!
GreenKnight
Dick Oslund
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Hello GreenKnight33!

When I was a teen, in the '40s, I had several mentors, but, our relationship was very informal. They were professionals whose shows I had seen. I went back, after the show, and introduced myself. We mostly continued a relationship via "snail mail", there was no other way,back then! In a few instances, I was able to meet them again, and, in a very few cases, we developed a life long friendship.

Stuart Ross, C. Thomas Magrum, Roy Shrimplin, Roy Mayer, Loring Campbell, were all full time professionals, and they willingly shared their lifetime experiences and talents with a teen ager who wanted to be "one of them". I benefited immensely. They contributed to my life as a magician, more than I can begin to describe.

Generally, we didn't discuss specific tricks. We usually talked about performing and making the performance, entertaining. We discussed "life on the road". We talked about "things" that couldn't be bought in a magic shop!

There weren't any video tapes, or DVDs in those days, There were only a very few conventions.

They are all gone now. Loring Campbell wrote a column in "TOPS" for years, Roy Mayer contributed material to "Kid Stuff Five", Stuart and Clem Magrum and Roy Shrimplin performed, and "like old soldiers, they faded away",

In later years, I knew Charlie Miller, Dai Vernon, Karrell Fox, Jay Marshall, Al Flosso, Charlie Mardo, George McAthy, Tommy Windsor, Neil Foster, Harry Jr. et al, but that was because we were all professionals. --If those early mentors had not been willing to help me learn, and grow, I would never have met and become friends with the others.

So, you probably are realizing that my mentoring experience was not a formal affair, but, had it not been for those old professionals, I probably wouldn't be here today, writing this!

Dick Oslund
Sneaky, underhanded,devious, and surreptitious itinerant mountebanc
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
GreenKnight33
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Thank you Mr. Oslund for the great feedback of your apprenticement to becoming a magician!

I really enjoying hearing about how artists were influenced over time.

Funny when you mention the snail mail. Now its so much easier to get and stay in contact, but I would think those letters from this now gone are very precious and rare.
charliemartin
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One of the best times of my life was being a roommate to a magician that most don't know. His name is James Hamilton, and is best known as an founding member of the Long Beach Mystics and as the world's leading expert on the Hermann Family. James and I are totally different in performing styles but also complemented each other in shows we did together. My favorite part and still is, the "link" to the past. Talking history of magic, who invented what, who performed what, etc. I got to meet several magicians that James introduced me to..for example..Chuck Kirkam who unfortunately was in the grips of Alzeimer's but still floored me with performing a giant Botania in his living room.Talking "shop" with John Daniels & Cathy, having breakfast with Bob Wagner who instructed me on his book. Meeting Harry Blackstone JR at our house and David Copperfield too. I could go on and on, but I truly think our younger generation of magicians should have what I had and still have...a friend and a mentor.
Dick Oslund
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2014, GreenKnight33 wrote:
Thank you Mr. Oslund for the great feedback of your apprenticement to becoming a magician!

I really enjoying hearing about how artists were influenced over time.

Funny when you mention the snail mail. Now its so much easier to get and stay in contact, but I would think those letters from this now gone are very precious and rare.


Yes! I still have a bundle of letters from Stuart Ross, Clem Magrum, Roy Mayer, et al. --and, they are precious!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
BeThePlunk
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Some clearly credit their mentors. I believe that Michael Ammar was actively mentored by Dai Vernon. Suzanne clearly credits Al Schneider. Maybe by looking at each one in turn, you can create your own "geneology".
GreenKnight33
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Betheplunk, agreed, will have to map it out. Was thinking of doing top 20 magicians today, then working backward.

Hey Charlie, thank you for sharing those memories. I like that person to person mentoring as well. Just need to carefully find someone, or take assessment if it's possible with all other things on my plate...family and busy work schedule.

Definitely think it would help.

Take care,
GreenKnight
charliemartin
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GreenKnight, thanks for the response. I think mentors are important but so is having friends who feel they can be honest with you. They tell you when something isn't working, they also give you advice though my friends give me bits and pieces, because I believe if it's worth working on then I should be the one who puts in the leg work to make it better.Magic Club meetings are great but they havebecome "love fests".
Bob Sanders
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GreenKnight33.

I think it is very honorable that you want to make this connection.
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

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GreenKnight33
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Hey Charlie,

That's what I find interesting about Magic Clubs. Frequently they are cited as places to get feedback/be mentored. However, that assumes ALOT about the people at the club. Just as a mentor shouldn't take anyone under their wing, nor should a student just take anyone's advice as a mentee...even if that person is older or been a magician longer.

We all know people that who are older, but not necessarily wiser, more mature etc.

So in thinking through what it would be like to get a teacher/student relationship, it almost seems like there should be some interviewing on both sides, to make sure there's a good match.

For example Charlie, you cite that club meetings have become love fests. That's something I absolutely don't want, and would never attend if it is that way. My undergrad degree is in fine art, so I'm used to getting ripped apart by professors and critiqued on every piece of artwork. If magic is art, the same should apply. I'm not saying they should be jerks about how they critique, but I'll never get better apart from honest feedback.

Is there anything in the magic community where, via an electronic type method, that people who are willing to mentor, and people who are willing to be menteed, can exchange information, goals, so that matches could be made?

It's a great level of trust that the student (from my perspective) would be putting into someone critiquing and guiding me, so I don't take that pairing up lightly.

Thank you for all your feedback and discussion points.

GreenKnight
charliemartin
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The Long Beach Mystics were founded on performing and feedback. They rarely enjoyed something (that's what I have been told by pros who were members). I think it's important for our peers to be honest, that's the only way we improve.
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