Hi there, is there any chance that it could be made non-searchable via google please?

here are my reasons:
we have latest and greatest
we have tricks and mentally yours for reviews
and we tend to not review commercially available products in Penny
HOWEVER! too often, techniques and methods are referred to all too freely - and a lot of performers (pro and non-pro) are concerned about this...its been discussed and is causing quite a stir...and with good reason...

a lot of us want to keep our secrets a secret, I even gave some examples here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=82

and members of the public DO search online for our secrets...

the only other idea I had was that we have a specific mentalism moderator - I do genuinely think something needs to change, and we need to change how we do things...becuase I honestly believe a lot of regulars will start moving on...and then you'll be left with newbies arguing amongst themselves and nothing productive happening...

would be great to come up with some kind of compromise or alteration...

thanks,
iain

Interesting post lets see what they think.
I personally have a view somewhat in the middle.
I think may be the Google search allows other magicians to find the Café

- JoshTmagic

And they still can, because of the mentally yours section, latest and greatest and the tricks section - there is more than enough info there for google to pick up...products and advertising I would imagine would be the key driver - and we don't really review products in "Pennies"...and the rest of the Café will still show up on the searches...

That's True
We will have to wait and see what happens.

I'd love to see penny not be google searchable, as most of my posts in Penny these days are to ask people to continue the conversation in inner thoughts.

This! I think (from a selfish point of view) it would be wonderful to keep great minds contributing on this Café. If privacy is what gives this community contributions, then I am all in.

Rather than sitting in the side-lines I thought I would add another to the +1 camp for this. I know I've been part of the problem in the past so if I can be part of the solution I might just about make it back to a zero sum.

It makes sense. Maybe the purpose of Penny should be rethought. It's hard to differentiate what topics go where.

Methods are asked for and discussed in all sections of the Café. What makes the mentalism area special?

Just because they are, doesn't mean that they should...

The first statement above is the problem. I don't think anyone is saying the mentalism area is special, or more important than the other areas. All that's happening is that a group of people who frequent one section of the Café are communicating their thoughts. Who knows, perhaps the card flingers will do the same.

But, the problem is exactly what you said in your first sentence, that methods are asked for and discussed in all sections of the Café. As it stands there is a section for the discussion of methods and the like of mentalism in Inner Thoughts, which raises the question of what is the purpose of penny?

I agree with this question 100% Either the entire thing goes to "the dark side of the web" or none. I am not arguing that the ease of gathering info might need addressed but one section should not be any different than another in that respect. I wonder though, the sections that you must have 50+ posts, are they able to be gotten on through Google if you are not a member with the proper amount of "legit" posts? If this slows it down or stops "lookie lous" maybe more sections could require "X" number of posts to enter. (And some sections should go even further than 50, but that is a personal opinion although I have read the same idea a few times before).

Which sort of addresses my point. I guess you have to have some "open" sections of interest to all parts of the art. Maybe all of the open ones need better monitoring. The problem is, the Café is a free resource that stays afloat by donations, advertising and volunteers. That being said, I think they do a pretty good job.

The answer may be, some open sections that are closely monitored then some 50+ sections (moderated to a point) and maybe throw in some 1000+ sections (that would be way more likely to "self monitor" but obviously would still have Café rules to follow. Just an idea.

You have no idea how many posts are made saying "if this doesn't change, many regulars or pro's will leave" or "this is the reason so many have left the Café". If that were actually true, we'd have a very small group of members. Truth is, most of the members that leave or say they've left, do so because they have either violated our rules and were banned or can't handle the criticism they receive by other members. Kind of like "my way or the highway"

However, if those members complaining about exposure in forums like Penny would stop contributing to the exposure, the problem would be significantly reduced. Quite often we see a new member asking a question, innocently, which would lead to exposure and instead of either ignoring the post or pointing out to the member that methods aren't discussed there, those that know, post links to the explanation or give enough information that a layman could get google results. I"ve seen responses that have said "we don't discuss methods here but click on this link and you'll get your answer" Talk about a layman being able to gain information through google, you might as well post the explanation if you're going to give a link to it.

How about those that are concerned with the possible exposure in those accessible forums police themselves and not compound the problem.



In most cases, this is not a problem. Every forum has an explanation of what is to be posted there. Secret areas like inner thoughts are there to discuss methods. New members don't have the ability to post there so they use penny which is meant for general discussions, not methods. We cannot move a topic to the secret areas if members have less than 50 posts so again, instead of posting leading to exposure or requesting the topic be moved, it would be better to just not respond and report the post. We'll take care of notifying the member of the rules. A simple read of the description for each forum, should tell a poster whether or not his post belongs in that forum.

Another thing to remember is that even if the forum didn't show up in google, the layman that really wants to learn the secret can always just register as a member and do their search here. Nothing stops a new registration. If a person wants to know, there is always a way.

Is there any chance then, that you guys would re-instate the sticky saying "we don't discuss methods" and so on, please?

I think there is a difference. And it's probably the fundamental difference between magic and mentalism.

Members of a magic audience know they are going to be fooled by the magician's skill. They don't know how, but they know he is using secret technique and ability to perform his routines. In fact, that is often part of the wonder and the marvel of a magical performance - that this entertainer can fool us with such skill, elegance and grace. So the fact that a part of the web exists where magicians discuss methods doesn't really burst any bubbles.

Mentalists, on the other hand, play in that zone where what they are doing might just be real - whether it is advanced psychology or supernatural ability, part of the power of mentalism is that there might just, possibly, be no secret technique, they might just be doing it for real. That tension is a large part of what keeps mentalism interesting. But it is a very fragile bubble of reality. And the existence of a part of the internet where mentalists go to discuss techniques? Well, that acts as a giant pin aimed straight at the fragile bubble before the mentalist even takes the stage.

So I think there is a difference. You may or may not agree. But that's how I see it.

Ian, we can post as many stickies as you'd like however, most people don't read them so it wouldn't resolve your issue. There is already is a sticky at the top of Penny with some good guidance by quite a few members including Steve explaining the difference between Penny and inner thoughts.

We do understand and appreciate your concerns and with that said, a new sticky topic has been placed at the top of the forum stating the difference between Penny and Inner Thoughts.

Thanks Dave, appreciate it...

Thank you, Dave!

It seems like the rules are there as needed. Repeating the rules does't solve the problem.
If there is exposure, all you have to do is report the post and the moderator will remove it.
If it persists the moderator has the option to ban the offender.