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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Google (without the asterisks) - "mentalism b*ll*ts"...
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
And its about leakage...not always a direct thing...its a friend, a know-all, a cousin, a kid, a friend of a friend and so on..they may have been told by someone...and on it goes...until it happens when you're performing and someone says "hey, my friend loves derren brown, he told me he knows how you do this kinda thing..."
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
If you google something a layman might ask you are usually directed to the Café. For instance search mindreading b**k and see the results. There are videos that will lead a lay person to understand that the effect is a book t**t. They can further search from there. That is if they REALLY want to know.
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sbays Inner circle Burbank, CA 1065 Posts |
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On Dec 19, 2014, twistedace wrote: Yes but they will also be directed to penguin, hocus-pocus, youtube ... and the list goes on. The reality is, I think the percentage of people who may search for these things is infinitesimal compared to what we make it out to be. If someone is initiated enough, they can stroll right on down to the magic shop and ask questions, and will probably be directed to exactly where to buy what they are asking for. While there are some that may want to dig for this info, I think the vast majority could care less. I kind of look at it this way: In a David Copperfield show, there is a moment where he vanishes from stage and appears in the audience just a second after. When this happens, there are a few in the audience who see exactly what is going on when the "work" happens. A very small percentage of the whole audience. It just goes with the territory. Do you think this hurts his show? Not in the least bit. So a couple people leave knowing a little something extra. So what. His show goes on, and 99 percent of the rest of his audience are none the wiser. And so it has been forever. I am not saying we shouldn't guard our secrets the best we can, but we do have to realize that if someone out there is determined enough, they are going to find information.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Though, if Copperfield could make sure those few never saw anything, don't you think he would?
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sbays Inner circle Burbank, CA 1065 Posts |
I think he has common sense enough to know that he can't. The same goes for here. Look, if I had a button sitting next to me that I could press that would eliminate this stuff getting out to the general public, I would hit it a dozen times just to be sure. But there is no button. We just have to be realistic and level headed about all of this.
Copperfield does this part of his show every night knowing it will be tipped for a few each time. If he were that concerned about it, he would drop it from his show. He doesn't, because in the end it just doesn't hurt anything.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1533 Posts |
This is the main reason I don't use the word "Mentalist" or "Mentalism" in my business cards, nor in my show.
Besides, I try to use original material as much as I can, but Have you ever stop to think what a layman could search for? If you perform an Add a Number, they will search "How did the entertainer know the total of random numbers given by the audience" IF they find something, there are still a ton of add a number routines. So I think we are pretty much safe.
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
This discussion has just kicked into the logical fallacy of "It's going to happen, so it doesn't matter if we make the problem worse".
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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Tim Cavendish Inner circle 1404 Posts |
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On Dec 19, 2014, IAIN wrote: That one doesn't matter. "B*ll*t" is jargon internal to the field. That's not a casual layperson's search. Just as laypeople watching card tricks won't be searching for "Kelly Bottom Placement" or "Vernon Depth Illusion," "b*ll*t" is not a search they'll run while watching a mentalist. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
True...
but to be honest, I'm beyond caring/arguing now...if the urge to point that out is important to you, fair enough... i've tried to do what I personally feel is right, others have to - that's about it...whether anyone agrees or not, they are obviously entitled to that viewpoint... as I said elsewhere, as long as people are keen to report posts more often, rather than reply to them and bump them, then that's a good thing...
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Tim Cavendish Inner circle 1404 Posts |
It's helpful that that guideline went into the sticky, which is a form of institutional memory. Unfortunately it's hard to make people click through and read the sticky...
I wonder if it might also be useful to create a thread entitled "Remember: REPORT threads that discuss methods; don't add to them!" which could be bumped to the top anytime such activity is going on. That thread would presumably be constantly in view, so folks would read its title a lot. Maybe it would help people learn the protocol -- no clickthroughs necessary. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I was thinking we might whack a link to the posting guidelines in our signatures at some point...
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1533 Posts |
I like both ideas, Tim & Iain
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts |
I read this thread and decided to try the simplest Google search possible, using the fewest keywords possible, and from what I can only presume is the average secret-seeking layman's perspective when confronted with the number of sites out there that insist on people paying to learn secrets piecemeal; in short, I Googled "free mentalism" last night.
What I found was pretty depressing. Within a few clicks of links on the page, there were, displayed before me, the stolen works of a person highly respected in our art, available for free download. I'm pretty sure nobody asked his permission to make these probably still-for-sale items available for free to the public. It was disturbing to me how easily I was able to find this. One thing I noticed though was that this site didn't show up much on the way to this sad discovery, and the casual clicker looking for free secrets would probably have ended up going in other, easier directions. I don't think the Café is all that popular of an option for most people seeking out the hidden workings of what we do, at least not the casuals or the secret-seekers. Still though, I can see how this sorry state of affairs on the internet can make everyone simply not want to share their knowledge with anyone anymore. I don't think exposure is as big a problem as some people think it is, but it's still a pretty big one, and unless something changes, it's just going to get worse. When someone works hard to do something great and others take it and toss it around for free it's as damaging to the arts as people stealing one another's acts and claiming them to be their own. It's all theft, so it amounts to the same thing. I guess it's up to all of us to try and change things. It might make a difference and it might not, but then at least it won't be us doing it and making the problem worse. Something C.J. kindly reminded me of not long ago has made me renew my vows, as it were, and I think we could all use that kind of thing now and then. And yeah, the fact that the problem exists either way is no excuse for making it worse. We're the keepers of the secret knowledge, and if that's what we're going to be, we need to stay mindful of what the whole keeping thing is all about.
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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Michael Zarek Special user Sweden 923 Posts |
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On Dec 20, 2014, Mortimer Graves wrote: I think the problem lies partially also in the use of the word "Mentalism", if one didn't introduce himself as such than finding all these methods would be much harder. I wrote quite a lengthy post about why I think it's a bit pointless to put "Mentalist" on a bussines card or to introduce yourself as one, this is one of the reasons.
Reader discretion is advised.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
I still don't understand the point of this thread?
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