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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Looch - The Black Project (183 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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IAIN
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Because some things aren't worthy of debate...

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should...
I've asked to be banned
MatCult
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What's the point in discussing a price that isn't going to change? It's like debating whether there are too many days in a year. Your opinion will not sway how long it takes the Earth to orbit the sun, so what do you hope to achieve by airing your views on the subject?
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
tmoca
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Because some things aren't worthy of debate...

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should...


Iain, I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree. Everything is up for debate whether it will make a change or not. Discussions and debates are always a good thing. Especially with this topic, because it may possibly help the next person to make a decision as to how they are to market and price the item that they want to sell. If people don't know what their potential customers are thinking, they would never really know if they are doing or marketing something thing the wrong way, until it's too late.

I like Looch. I like his thinking and own much his material. I have the money to buy the book, but honestly do not feel that Looch's work is anywhere near worth $400+ USD. A strong statement yes, but still my opinion and worth expressing.

****all of this is just my opinion and of course open for debate Smile
VIEW
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Ordered. And very much looking forward to receiving it.
phillsmiff
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I think debate like this is healthy. I don't think Looch will be offended or perplexed.

For what it's worth, at this stage, the price is pretty much all that people CAN talk about, after all no-one has read the book, or looked at the production of it, or watched the videos on the site or perused the expansion documents etc. After 2MINDS in Newcastle a few more people will have it in their hands then after that the preorders will ship and the actual discussion can start. Personally I'm super excited to hear what people have to say, and to see people's reactions to the book at the meetup - atm though TBP is just a number to most people, and (in lieu of anything else to discuss) the fact that that number is quite big seems to be of note.

Phill
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Atlas
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I wanted to take a moment and weigh in on broader point that I think is being overlooked to some extent - and it is only obliquely related to Looch (so please forgive me for this tangent).

This is a limited run of books.

Some people like that, some people don't.

Dustin has pointedly said that he'd never release a limited edition set of books, from which I infer that there is something inherently wrong in doing so. I think that sentiment ignores some fundamental truths and belies an underlying naivety of sorts.

There are currently three routes that are available to the self publisher.

The first is an ebook. It requires no investment on the part of the creator. The overhead is your hosting and that's pretty much all. This means that the creator assumes zero risk and is free to release a book without INVESTING in its production beyond creating it. This is a safe route, especially if your material is widely panned because it wasn't really very good in the first place - you'll never be sat with boxes of books that you couldn't sell.

The second route is published on demand. It requires nearly as little overhead and gives the purchaser a physical copy of the book, but again, the initial investment and inherent risk associated with a mass printing of your book is not a concern. Again, this is a safe route - especially if your material doesn't sell copies. The quality of the books from print on demand sites is, however, vastly inferior to an actual commissioned print run.

The third and final route to publication is to actually invest in your content and print a number of books. The up front fees can be quite expensive, especially when you have used high quality material. You have to decide how many to print, and what is realistic. These print runs are often pretty expensive, and involve guesswork - much like a restaurateur who has to decide how much steak the diner will need on any given day. The books sit in the creator's office and get sold one by one, packed one by one and shipped one by one. The creator invests their time and money at every step. Then, there are two approaches to funding the printing of the book - sell them before the book is printed to try to drum up the capital, or actually reach into your own pocket to fund it. I happen to know that Looch spent a HEFTY five figure sum in pounds to print these books - and he can only do this because the material in this book is what he performs and does pay him very well. In my opinion, the fact that he has paid for the books up front underlines the inherent value of the material within, but regardless, my point was that this isn't a 'crowdfunding' approach. He meticulously chose what you will get and everyone who wants a copy knows exactly what they will be getting.

I can't really believe many ebook authors would be comfortable investing the same sum in their material - most of them would take massive losses - and that's part of why I recently said that I think there will be a new trend moving forward: The highly theoretical and untested material will be released in ebooks, while the material that actually does work - that creators actually invest in printing because they KNOW it works - will be released in physical format.

Looking at all the routes to releasing material listed above and with an understanding of the logic behind each route to market, I know which I'd feel most comfortable purchasing.

I hope I don't come across as being at odds with anyone in particular, I'm not - you are all free to express yourselves and your ideas and I completely respect each of you. As I said, I just wanted to address a point that was only obliquely related to this book and was discussing what I see as a broader change on the horizon.

I guess my point was that limited editions aren't always printed to keep things away from people who are just curious, or as sales tactics, but there is an actual moment when a printer asks you how many copies you'll need and you have to make a guess at the figure as retooling and reprinting are also typically expensive enough to not be viable options. You want to get the order just right and that's difficult. If there is a perceived gap in supply and demand, it is because a creator will have erred on the side of caution when it comes to printing the run of books.

Best,

Atlas
Dr Spektor
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, MatCult wrote:
It's like debating whether there are too many days in a year.


Ask Thoth!
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MatCult
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, MatCult wrote:
It's like debating whether there are too many days in a year.


Ask Thoth!


Hahaha!

<Insert your own "annus vagus" joke here>
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TheDirectionalist
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I predict that I will have this many posts when you read this:
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Ah that does make some more sense of it Atlas.. Thanks for the clear explanation!

Never looked at it that way before. This is why debate is a good thing folks! Smile
Ray Haining
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I think debate is good. It's better than "I just ordered" or "I received my copy today, but will have to wait a few days to get to it because I have too much to do in the garage."

The point about the price (or cost) is that even if an author has the greatest material ever, if they don't have the money to have it published physically, then they don't have the money, and the same for would-be purchasers.

I guess it all boils down to life not being fair. But the discussion is good because points of view that one may not have thought of get aired.
Daren
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Does the new book contain routines for the strolling performer or is it mainly suited for stage/parlour?
Looch
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I'm known for my close up work so the book has a lot of close up in there. There are a few stage pieces however Smile
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
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AaronishMagic
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Can't wait to give it a read. Congrats to Looch for such a beautiful release.
clairvoyant
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Will we get a description of the routines included anytime soon?
popcalinda
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Hangar 18 - No access will be granted to those who purchase the book when it is on general sale, so act quickly if you know you want this exclusive content.

Interesting really. Those who will pay more for book will have no access to secret area...

Bad marketing
popcalinda
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Hangar 18 - No access will be granted to those who purchase the book when it is on general sale, so act quickly if you know you want this exclusive content.

Interesting really. Those who will pay more for book will have no access to secret area...

Bad marketing
popcalinda
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Hangar 18 - No access will be granted to those who purchase the book when it is on general sale, so act quickly if you know you want this exclusive content.

Interesting really. All those who will pay more for book will have no access to secret area...

Bad marketing
magicinsight
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How many routines from the two disc DVD set, Your Thoughts are Mine,(a great DVD set) are part of this book set?

Thank you.
Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Looch
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, magicinsight wrote:
How many routines from the two disc DVD set, Your Thoughts are Mine,(a great DVD set) are part of this book set?

Thank you.
Michael



Hi Michael

None
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Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
Looch
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, popcalinda wrote:
Hangar 18 - No access will be granted to those who purchase the book when it is on general sale, so act quickly if you know you want this exclusive content.

Interesting really. All those who will pay more for book will have no access to secret area...

Bad marketing


Not at all...

I've pasted below the text you didn't include in the copy above, explaining why the Hangar 18 offer exists:

If you buy into a project before you’ve had a chance to read any reviews, you sometimes run the risk of getting burned. Although I am more than confident that this project will take pride of place on your bookshelf, everyone knows that where there is an increased risk, there should be an increased reward.

So, for those of you who purchase this limited edition book before the release date, I have put together a special package for you. This package is called the Hangar-18 package.
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
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