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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts 
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Yeah, there's always going to be a love of novelty, but the classics have it all, in one form or another.
A name I don't see kicked around much is Al Mann. I've got six manuscripts he put out, and there's enough stuff in there alone to keep anyone busy for a lifetime. Sure, some of it's a tad outdated in light of more modern technologies, but those modern technologies are mostly refurbishments or updates of classic things, anyway. His Dunninger Mystic Series, for all that it kind of reads like a telephone book, is chock-full of material, and the ideas in it can be applied in so many fresh ways. I sort of miss being able to buy a book and know that I'd at least get two performable effects out of it, or maybe even three. Those were the days.
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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Casper TFG New user 49 Posts
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It's good to hear Al Mann's name mentioned. I knew him quite well and I miss him. We shared some very interesting times together. I have almost all his manuscripts. I found a lot of his ideas invaluable in one way or another. So, I didn't mind spending money on those I found to be "less than stellar" shall we say because in the long run, I knew I would come out ahead. I did have the good fortune to be able to go to his house to pickup manuscripts so, to say the least, it was an overall good atmosphere in which to purchase what he had to offer, unlike what is going on in the world of ebooks today.
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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Yeah, he may have "sold his soul a bit", so to speak, but it's forgivable, considering the vast amount of stuff he made available to the community, during times when there was no internet.
He was no johnny-come-lately cranking out candy corn; rather, he was prolific in his contribution to the art. Nice to see I'm not the only one who still likes those old typewritten things. XD
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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Robb Inner circle 1291 Posts
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Ashamed to say I'm not familiar with Mann's work... Though I probably am, actually... I'm sure his ideas have been reworked or are now standards. My historical knowledge of magic and mentalism is not great. I often forget where I first read about this or that idea and that's fine for me as I'm not a teacher of mentalism and don't need to worry attribution and all that.
Still, I'm pretty sure I should check out Al Mann's work.. |
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Kabbalah Inner circle 1621 Posts
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I remember when it was a treat to get that big envelope from Del-Ardo Magnuson!
Those were the days.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green "The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them." ~ John Northern Hilliard |
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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He published works which, I'm pretty sure, influenced people like Richard Osterlind, I'll put it that way. There's a Bob Cassidy item as well which bears a striking resemblance to something I saw in one of Mann's manuscripts.
Stuff like Dunninger's Black Box, Acidus Novus, Super Clip-Line Plus, things like that. He published those. A great deal of what was in his manuscripts was contributed by the community of mentalists who were performing and creating at that time, but he created a good deal of his own material, as well. Some of his works had a sort of Jinx-like feel to them, being collaborations and collections of stuff from all over. I have come up with more than one method for something in the past and then found it had already been published in his Dunninger Mystic Series, long before I came onto the scene, and the first mental effect I performed in my life (as a child, in 1978; I called it my "ghost trick") used a method which I later discovered (less than a year ago) in Cero-Mentics. I remembered this, and began performing it again about a month ago, and it's a lot more fun now than when I was young and foolish. XD He was a huge contributor to our arts as a whole, and I'm sure a lot of our modern stuff wouldn't be nearly the same if he hadn't been around. I put him right up there with Annemann and Corinda; in fact, he performed for a short while as "Allemann", if I recall correctly!
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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Oh, and he wasn't an ancient, by the way, I mean, he was publishing stuff into at least the 80's, even, and I'm not saying he's responsible for the careers of our famous members or anything, but he was right there with it all back in the day, and made an enormous impact on the arts, at least I feel he did.
He was into this stuff from at least the 50's onward, and was a friend of Dunninger. In my book that makes him pretty old-school.
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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I agree Mort. But lest people misinterpret what you wrote, I was good friends with Al Mann (Gilbert Alleman). I was also his attorney. Here's something I wrote several years ago regarding the effect you are probably referring to:
Quote: In 1981 Al Mann devised a billet tear he called the “Mag-Eye” move. He enthusiastically demonstrated it for me and gave me a copy of the manuscript Phanta Graphs, in which he had first described it. |
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Mr Timothy Gray.jpg "View Profile") Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts
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I love the direction this conversation has taken, because it's made me think about the source of this topic.
Dunninger had an amazing act. And it was very bold. Uncle Bob and Prof. Osterlind have, in their own way, modified Granddaddy D's act - and both have remained bold and true to the original spirit. Very few recent products call on the performer to be so bold. They cater to the techno crowd - using 'MODERN' methods and lingo. This attracts the novice (as it always has and always will). To my mind - when someone refers to a classic as 'dated' - this means they are unwilling to put in the necessary time to make it work - because they are afraid of failure, given that the method might require boldness and pure showmanship.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Mortimer Graves Special user New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S.A. 556 Posts
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Timothy, I totally agree with you. It's like everyone expects everything to be self-working now, so they can just buy stuff and be instant showmen. I hate to break it to them, but there's no such thing as an instant showman. Straight magic is just as bad, or worse. It's like it's all turning into high-priced slum stuff. And part of the allure for novices is fear of something being so old that everyone knows it. Little do they realize, virtually nobody knows the old stuff out there in the lay public, because hardly anyone does it.
Hell, I use stuff I got out of books exposing mediums in the 1800's, and it still works. You just have to have the nerve to try it. And Bob, I actually read that somewhere before, I just don't remember where... But no worries, I wasn't referring to that particular item. And don't anyone infer either that I'm saying Dr. Bob took anything from Mr. Mann, simply that something Bob made struck me as incredibly like something I saw in a Mann manuscript. It happens sometimes, and I don't wish to imply one way or the other. Contemporaries and close friends often think alike. Actually the item in Mann's booklet was based on a marketed item, and he said that his was pretty old at the time, practically falling apart. Not wanting to go into much detail here in the Penny Dreadful section, so I'll just mention it was in Cero-Mentics. That should be safe enough. I hope. And Bob, the bit about being his attorney, I never knew that. I learn something new every day here, I swear. Thanks!
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.
Hastur, Hastur, Hastur! See? Nothing hap- ...and if we rub each other the wrong way, let's try going in another direction. - Pokey the Porcupine |
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equivoque Special user 862 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 28, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote: Agreed! Two days ago, I posted a very practical question about obtaining something for a routine I already owned and within minutes, someone tried to sell me their version of a similar routine! |
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CharlieThomms New user 43 Posts
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Earlier today, Rolyna posted in penny about a creator who is selling some of his stuff on eBay. The op didn't name any names, but the first reply by Clel-Mentalism named The culprit. Then the whole thread blew apart and everyone pointed fingers.
Who was this thread about?!? Why didn't anyone here talk about who this was originally inspred by? Can Clel-mentalism remember who this was about? I just don't think it is fair for this person to enjoy their anonmyity when the other guy was name. |
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts
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I used to go through Al Mann's catalog and inserts trying to work out solutions before I ordered from him.
Later I began sending him routines. Almost every time he would respond "You just re-invented so & so's effect". Once in a blue moon he'd go "Nice idea". And only once he got excited and published a small idea. Which I later learned Annemann had come up with first! I continue to re-invent the wheel... |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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Quote:
I think a significant shift seems to have happened in the last decade or so. Where once a mentalist gained credibility with their peers mainly via their performing chops they now seem to gain credibility mainly via published effects and ebooks. This is not new either. Some of the "greats" published routines that were impossible in real world situations. The difference now is it is easier to publish. The advantage is the cream rises to the top much easier when the playfield is leveled. Check out my ebook on the subject. |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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Quote:
I think a significant shift seems to have happened in the last decade or so. Where once a mentalist gained credibility with their peers mainly via their performing chops they now seem to gain credibility mainly via published effects and ebooks. This is not new either. Some of the "greats" published routines that were impossible in real world situations. The difference now is it is easier to publish. The advantage is the cream rises to the top much easier when the playfield is leveled. Check out my ebook on the subject. |
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts
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How much is the ebook?
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts
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How much is the ebook?
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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$250, limited edition to 300 of my best friends.
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts
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No pre-order ?
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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No pre-order! Just pay now and I'll send it to you when you're ready. It could take awhile, but you'll get it when you get it, it won't be proofread, and you'll be thankful you were part of the few that got it. Later you can sell it for double the cost.
- I'm having fun, and not picking on any creator, just the atmosphere we all have created. Personally, I can weed through the junk and sell it to someone else here in the Café.
No, if I truly think it is junk, I give it to a magician or performer I dislike .... let it fill up his junk drawer. I guess you can tell how much I like you from the amount of my gifts . . . . 
No, actually, if I really hate it, I cover up my embarrassment by insisting it is gold in the forums.
A real world example, Ken Dyne. From all accounts, his first book had issues (I do not own it). He grew and learned and his second book, Bairn, is incredible. The cream rises to the top. It may take awhile, but it gets there. |
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Posted: Dec 30, 2014 08:11 pm 
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