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mastermindreader
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Ian- The first sentence of my post isn't a legal question at all- it goes directly to the way that many have been characterizing the shooting.

The second part is the legal question. But, I believe, it is also a moral and ethical one. (As I believe most good legal questions are.)
Ian McColl
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How do you see that it has been characterised?

Morals and ethics are different all over the world.
mastermindreader
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Ian- The only characterizations I'm referring to can be found in this thread- that this was simply a tragic accident. My question is whether that characterization would change if the victim was an innocent bystander.

Obviously, I'm referring to US law and its moral and ethical underpinnings.

Note that I haven't disagreed with your conclusion that stupidity was a factor. (Though I didn't find it particularly humorous.)
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, balducci wrote:
Http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/......-walmart

In November, a woman in Oklahoma was fatally shot by her three-year-old with a semi-automatic handgun. Police said it appeared the child picked up the gun while his mother was changing a one-year-old’s diaper.

http://news.yahoo.com/police-boy-2-accid......957.html

In April, a 2-year-old boy apparently shot and killed his 11-year-old sister while they and their siblings played with a gun inside a Philadelphia home. Authorities said the gun was believed to have been brought into the home by the mother's boyfriend.

---

Gee, if only there was a simple way to prevent tragedies like the above (link that follows has to do with an idea developed by the fellow who designed the assault rifle used by elite U.S. special-forces units and that is credited with killing Osama bin Laden):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/worl......2222138/


Don't be silly. "Millions" of people have been saved by gun owners protecting themselves. Obviously if some people are going to die accidently, that's the price we must pay to be a free America! Smile


To be fair, some sources dispute the "millions" claim and contend that it's only hundreds of thousands.




Or at least a few dozen.


The conservative estimates are about 45,000 defensive gun uses per year in response to violent crime, and another 20,000 or so in response to property crimes.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Whose estimates and based on what? (Keeping in mind that anecdotal evidence is not data.)
LobowolfXXX
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The Violence Policy Center (a very anti-gun organization), based on the National Crime Victimization Survey conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the most accurate source available, per the VPC.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, lunatik wrote:
It's all about responsibility, nothing is foolproof it one can mitigate things like this by using common sense.


They put in the news report that she was a "responsible" gun owner who just got a new purse with a special zipped compartment for the gun.

So let's discuss this "responsible" person who;

Had a gun with a trigger sensitive enough for a two year old to pull.
Had the gun in her purse without the safety on. (If the gun HAD a safety, not certain what type of gun it was.)
Had that gun (with the safety off) in an open bag NEXT to that two year old.
Had a "zippered" compartment but chose not to lock up the gun next to the two year old.

My heart goes out to this kid who's going to go through life without his mother and will probably have guilt for the rest of his life.
Smile
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Ian McColl
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Thanks Bob,

“Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die.” Mel Brooks

Shame the mother isn't around any more, I would like to know what she was scared of to carry the gun in the first place and what she thought the odds were that she was going to need the gun.

It’s all in the context of the event

example
35 killed in Chinese new year eve stampede, a tragedy!
Pamplona bull run deaths, stupidity

Rozelle shop blast 3 killed (Aust): tragedy!
man killed when setting off illegal fireworks, amusing stupidity.
........................

there are thousand of events ever day and every year.

as to morals and ethics in the US system, from what I see and hear, it all comes down to which side tells the better story and if there is the satisfaction of revenge usually called justice.

I would have thought the moral of ‘thou shall not kill’ would be top of the list which would means the lady didn’t need to carry a gun because she wouldn’t have wanted to take another’s life.
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You shall not murder (Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח lo tirṣaḥ) (sometimes translated as You shall not kill (KJV) or Thou shalt not kill (LXX; οὐ φονεύσεις), is a moral imperative included as one of the Ten Commandments in the Torah,[1] specifically Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17.

The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt.[2] The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but also allows for justified killing in the context of warfare, capital punishment, and self-defense.

- Ever-reliable Wikipedia
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Ian McColl
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But is it moral???
LobowolfXXX
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Killing in self-defense? I certainly think so, but your mileage may vary.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Ian McColl
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Mileage???
greerj
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Would this be treated as simply an "accidental" tragedy if the victim was an innocent shopper who happened to be passing by?

Law school question time: If the victim was an innocent bystander, would there be a cause of action against the gun owner? Could criminal charges be filed? Discuss.


Idaho law - the operation of any firearm or deadly weapon in a reckless, careless or negligent manner which produces death - definition of involuntary manslaughter

If the victim was an innocent shopper, I believe the mother would have been arrested and charged.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The Violence Policy Center (a very anti-gun organization), based on the National Crime Victimization Survey conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the most accurate source available, per the VPC.


Then it is clearly not "hundreds of thousands" as you stated earlier. (Assuming that the VPC data is accurate.) The total of your "conservative estimate" would be 65,000.

Compare that to the number of firearms deaths by concealed carry licensees deemed non-justifiable by the same source.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Killing in self-defense? I certainly think so, but your mileage may vary.


I agree. There is nothing immoral in justifiable self defense.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The Violence Policy Center (a very anti-gun organization), based on the National Crime Victimization Survey conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the most accurate source available, per the VPC.


Then it is clearly not "hundreds of thousands" as you stated earlier. (Assuming that the VPC data is accurate.) The total of your "conservative estimate" would be 65,000.

Compare that to the number of firearms deaths by concealed carry licensees deemed non-justifiable by the same source.


I didn't claim that "hundreds of thousands" was an annual figure.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, Ian McColl wrote:
Mileage???


American idiom meaning "You might disagree."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Ian McColl
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, Ian McColl wrote:
Mileage???


American idiom meaning "You might disagree."



you've got to go metric.............
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
The Violence Policy Center (a very anti-gun organization), based on the National Crime Victimization Survey conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the most accurate source available, per the VPC.


Then it is clearly not "hundreds of thousands" as you stated earlier. (Assuming that the VPC data is accurate.) The total of your "conservative estimate" would be 65,000.

Compare that to the number of firearms deaths by concealed carry licensees deemed non-justifiable by the same source.


I didn't claim that "hundreds of thousands" was an annual figure.


I'll let you slide, then. Smile
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, Ian McColl wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 31, 2014, Ian McColl wrote:
Mileage???


American idiom meaning "You might disagree."



you've got to go metric.............


Your kilometrage may vary...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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