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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding Bobo's "The bottom Steal." It's the last of the fundamental moves (according to a few recommendations on prioritizing the basics, including the Bobo Study Guide and the list at coinvanish.com) and currently the only one left that I cannot do successfully at all.
Specifically, I have two main questions: 1. As described, it sounds like an unnatural way to transfer a stack of coins from 1 hand to another - holding your left hand palm-up and pointing right, then moving the stack from the very tips of your fingers all the way to the palm of your left hand. Am I describing it right? If so, it just seems to me that if your were REALLY transferring a stack, you make this long linear move with your right hand. Wouldn't that immediately make a spec suspicious? It seems to violate a lot of what I've been told about making things look as natural as possible. I'm sure I'm missing something, no? any guidance here? Thanks! Ken |
daniel116 Regular user 196 Posts |
I also think it's not a natural move, that's why it is rarely ever used these days.
Bobo's is an important book, but it was written at a time when most coin workers would use exaggerated gestures and big hand motions, unnatural moves, like in stage shows, but nowadays coin magic has evolved and a lot of these old moves have become obsolete. It's still important to know these moves, or know "of" them, even if you're not going to use them. |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I don't recall the details of this move and don't have the book close by,
but I have observed how people "naturally" transfer a stack of small object in tine-motion studies. I then tested this idea with business owners in many scenarios requiring then to hand me a stack. The right hand may take the stack at the fingertips,but will invert the stack when placing it in the left hand (anywhere). IN the final position, the left hand is palm up and the right palm down masking the coins. It is simple to slip the now bottom coin with your thumb into L*w*r Fi**g*r P**m, but it is the coin originally on top. I have found it easier to emulate this natural passing action by having the stack on my right fingers at the "right spot," then slide the stack forward with my right turns as I start the inversion, leaving the bottom coin behind. This way, the original bottom coin is retained and only the index fingertip of the right hand needs be on the stack after the transfer for a cleaner view. Either way, I would advise against doing this stack move more than once since the real "natural way" is to just pick up the stack with the left hand with no transfer.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
If it feels unnatural to you, it probably isn't the best move for you. There are better ways to retain a coin. If you want to steal a coin off the bottom, you can use Latta's improvement from the first issue of Richards Almanac. But there are still better ways to retain a coin, find what works best for you. Good luck with your search.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
I can remember long ago reading through Bobo's as to stuff like this, with no one to ask questions of. So, you either figure it out or you don't, and continue on toward something you could figure out a bit more readily. It was quite frustrating for a young whipper-snapper thinking he was trying to be a magician at that time.
Today, you can reach out here and someone will respond and clarify, as the posts above prove out. Everyone here has this great book and can refer to it when asked on things. Still, continue to challenge yourself to figure it out first, as there's something in all that that help builds a strong will to learn and figure out things like this, that, & the other. Good journey to you Ken...Keep Moving Forward in this New Year. -Mb
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"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Thanks everyone! Great advice. And Michael - I have added your info to my notes. MB - I remember having to learn things on my own before the internet (most of my lifetime!). In some ways my guitar-playing style is unconventional because I figured out how to do things with no guidance. I am really grateful for this resource.
Cheers! Ken |
wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 2, 2015, KenRyan wrote: Ken, I'm not sure what you are reading. In the "New Modern" edition of the book (not the Dover edition), it describes the action as happening as the stack passes over the left fingertips on its way to the left palm. The stack is never placed ON the fingertips, the stack simply passed over them in moving to the left. The action is almost entirely angle proof. I've found that taking the coin into a full palm causes tension at exactly the wrong moment. Instead, use the palm to control the stolen coin (so you don't drop it) and actually steal the coin in fingertip rest. As you slowly close the left fingers, shake the coins and as you do, press the stolen coin into palm. You can also cover the steal this way: when you pick up the stack 'accidentally' leave one coin on the table. Do the steal, and palm the stolen coin as you 'notice' the coin on the table. ALL attention will be on that. Pick up the remaining coin and toss it to the left hand to join the others. Geoff Latta's variation, is an excellent concept, if you area standing and people are looking down at your hands, but the original is more flexible. |
frankvomit Elite user 485 Posts |
I'm not sure but it sounds like you're describing the utility move in winged silver if it is I do it all the time with coins with balls whatever when done well it is smooth and with nothing to see I know Roth, Hayden, and the Doc use it.
Many apologys if this isn't what is being discussed. Im up at 5:50 am with insomnia and probably shouldnt be giving advice. Hope everyone had a good New Year! |
David Fillary Special user 662 Posts |
Wsduncan - that is a brilliant cover for it!
Tommy Wonder uses it in his coins across routine for putting the coins into an okito box. It then makes more sense to transfer the coins in such a way. |
DallasFrank Regular user Hey Rocky watch me pull a Rabbit outta my hat...oops wrong hat! 104 Posts |
I have a feeling this is what you are talking about.It is one of those utility moves I practice when I don't have anything better to do and am bored because it is not used much.Start slow and build speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9SIeGXZMLE Frank |
harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
I prefer the Benzai friction.
Anyone else use this to accomplish the same as the bottom steal?
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
No!!! It's Marlo's Friction palm ( see Bull's-eye coin trick Pg. 7.1942! ) Thanks so much!
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Thanks David, for helping my memory.
Harris dr. memory...no make that Dr. Laugh "if we can't laugh at ourselves, someone will beat us to it"
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
Your Welcome!
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David Fillary Special user 662 Posts |
Marlo has enough stuff to his name - can't we give Benzais a chance
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Darrin Cook Special user 621 Posts |
I like the bottom steal because I think the purpose is to transfer coins to the other hand very fairly. I hate when guys palm a coin, throw the coins to the other hand and behold, a coin has traveled. I don't think it's deceptive.
To me, the bottom steal is not intended to be a casual move, but looks like I am slowly and deliberately placing the coins into the left hand. |
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