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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts 
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That's interesting Magicfish - I suppose mine is the easy opinion because its the 'popular' one, and I wonder if you think Frances is seeking popularity and not thinking through his pronouncements carefully enough. I certainly don't think so - I think he is showing a life time of thought and I also think the cardinals knew what they were getting and chose him just for that - however I'm not Catholic or even Christian so I'm sure his congregation could have concerns I haven't thought of.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Pope Francis Approval Rating Hits 88 Percent among U.S. Catholics
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/24......ky-high/
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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He is easily the most popular Pope I can remember in my lifetime.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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On Jan 15, 2015, magicfish wrote: You sort of left out the most important part of your answer...WHY? You never really answered the question.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts
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Thanks for asking, Aces. I disagree with the only statement made (other than reading a book) that Catholic or not, we should all be glad to have the present pope in the Vatican. Quote: Yes the new pope moved George Pell to finances, now he is safely tucked away and doesn’t have to help those abused back home Pell's testimony On Thursday, August 21, Cardinal Pell appeared before the commission via videolink from Rome. His pale, sombre face filled four large screens in the courtroom. He lives in the Vatican now, a city-state waging eternal war against darkness, but enjoying the earthly perks and protections of its sovereignty. In response to a question about the Vatican’s reluctance to provide the commission with documents outlining its relationship to the Melbourne Response, Pell said: “I was aware of [the request] and I thought it unreasonable … In following international convention [the Vatican] will not provide the internal working documents of another sovereign state.” Pell was irritably laconic, answering with stiff monosyllables for much of the time. His voice seemed heavy with contempt, though perhaps it was fatigue – he was questioned for two-and-a-half hours. Nonetheless, Pell still managed a self-confident performance. He always has. For many politicians, his composure – cold and charmless as it is – must seem awe-inspiring. read more at https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news......09320800
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
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So, Ian, do you think another Pope would have handled it differently? Do you think a previous Pope would have handled it better?
Perhaps you feel that there should be no Pope or even no Catholic church, but the original statement suggested a comparison with other Popes, not a dislike of a particular action. I admire this Pope for reaching out and making decisions even if I do not agree with some of them. Better than earlier Popes who refused to make decisions. By analogy, you can admire the coach of an opposing football team even if they are trouncing your favorite. You may criticize calls made by the couch of your team and still keep them as a your favorite. It is easy to say, "he is a good coach" after a winning season, but also possible to say the same thing of a coach who takes a team from 2-6 last year to 4-4 this year.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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It's morally wrong to allow a sucker to keep his money.
-W. C. Fields
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts
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On Jan 15, 2015, funsway wrote: I don’t think any of the popes do anything good for the people, just line their own pockets with money. His change of heart on all matters is IMO trying to pull back market share, like McDonalds and their healthy meals. He hasn't helped with anything, just said words. (I can do that and am right now) This post from another member here sums it up (but I am not going to take the time to re-word it.) “The problem is that people of faith fill that gap in our knowledge, which may be forever unknowable, with an imaginary deity, or a range of imaginary deities, and then expect the rest of us to conform to their 'golden rules', even when those 'golden rules' involve suppressing women, gays, etc, and putting down those who follow a different imaginary deity, or set of deities. Isn't it peculiar how many of the golden rules support a hierarchy of males, and members of the establishment, and how few support women, those on the fringes, or those with no power or representation?” from http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......t=330#19 and from this post Quote:
On Jan 15, 2015, balducci wrote: It seems that the pope agrees with revenge attack for Charlie hedbo’s cartoons.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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What "change of heart" has Pope Francis had regarding his positions? If you are at all familiar with his history, he has always been remarkably consistent in his beliefs.
Nor is there ANY evidence to support the ridiculous notion that his only purpose is to line his pockets with money. That is simply a view of someone who chooses to slander him. I think I can almost guarantee that you know nothing of his history, nor have read any of his writings or listened to him speak. |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts
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On Jan 15, 2015, mastermindreader wrote: He is the head of the church, his position is the new church, when he goes, the views will change. Still happened see any real help for the masses other than words.
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts
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On Jan 15, 2015, funsway wrote: Exactly! I particularly like what Funsway says about not having to agree with everything a person does to admire them, and would add that we have to be able to admit to, and admire, the good things people we disagree with do. There is only ever a way forward by finding common ground. |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts
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On Jan 15, 2015, Ian McColl wrote: :) Come on mate, I am not the biggest fan of the papacy myself, I think they can do a lot more for sure, but there is no way in heck that Pope Francis is encouraging terrorist attacks, nor revenge in any form. I think the "he can expect a punch" was a little tongue in cheek... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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The Pope was very clear that revenge killings are wrong. To state otherwise is simply false.
He made it clear, though, that we should expect negative reactions when we insult someone's faith or beliefs. Just because we have the RIGHT to say something, doesn't always mean that we should. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 15, 2015, Destiny wrote: We have learn to, love thy enemy!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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What is good about being popular?
Well if you want to be popular anyway then agree to all and that is the secret of peace and tranquility.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts
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On Jan 15, 2015, Ian McColl wrote: A previous pope picked up his sword, jumped on his horse and charged into battle at the head of his army at the age of 70 - not out of goodness but because popes then ruled earthly kingdoms. - but still got to admire the guy. Popes no longer grow rich off the job, and while I'm not an admirer of many of the recent ones it has to be said most of them were in it for what they though was right, not personal gain. They also no longer charge into battle. They have only words but words can be powerful and this man, whose words have a lot of influence, has used that power frequently for the good of the poor, the powerless, the marginalised and the oppressed , and I think he probably has caused some improvement in many lives. I absolutely love that when the German 'Bishop of Bling' built himself an opulent palace at his congregations expense, Francis took it off him and gave it to the poor. And following the example of a few other popes throughout history, he forgoes himself the luxury accommodation that could be his at the Vatican, and lives modestly. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Yes like the Godfather just does it for the family, it’s not personal.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts
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On Jan 16, 2015, tommy wrote: repent or go to hell............... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ma......-in-hell The Don could just give him cement shoes instead of take these seriously. was the Pope serious.......
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
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Thanks for that post, Ian, as an illustration of how this leader uses influence and respect in an attempt to mediate peace and gentile action.
He does not have to threaten, because the followers of the Church have already agreed to the outcome of their actions -- the Pope is just reminding them. As you noted above, the "validity" of their view of God may be open to question -- but not deserving of ridicule because you believe in something else. Do you worship Microsoft? Money? Youtube? Who knows? Regardless, the commitment any person makes to an organization is real. They deserve to be held accountable for their following the agreed rules. That has nothing to do with God. I will listen to any leader or individual who demonstrates by their actions and words the concepts of knowledge, brotherhood and charity. The biggest hero of the Paris attacks was a Muslim who hid and saved the lives of several Jews. He has opinions about how to worship and opinions about how to act in this world towards others. I would listen to his opinions because I respect his actions. I will listen to the Pope's opinions because I respect his actions. I do not have to agree with either in order to respect them and possibly learn. ................ Now people post their opinions on the Café' as is their right as long as they involve no personal attacks and a few other rules. My willingness to consider those opinions is based on how much I respect the poster -- their experience with magic, their treatment of others, their logic and grammar, etc. Thus, the question, Ian, is why anyone on the Café' should consider your opinion as valid, meaningful or relevant? Given at you have shared here, why would anyone want to read any future post by you at all? There is an ancient saying that predates all Popes by centuries: "You may be right, you may be wrong. Why I should care is the question?"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
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Posted: Jan 15, 2015 01:02 pm 
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