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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Can someone recommend any good tips for improving the finger palm? Ironically, it was the very first coin conceal I learned during the first week I started studying magic, which admittedly is only a very short 10 weeks ago . But lately, some of the moves I've been learning have uncovered a weakness in my finger palm that I didn't know was there.
I can't seem to open my hand enough when holding it palm-down in FP position. My 2nd and/or 3rd fingers have to curl in a little to far to look natural. I need to be able to straighten my fingers out a lot more and still hold onto the coin, AND have it look natural. Looking carefully today at where the coin should lodge, I thought I could do much better if I had a bit of a callus at the inner joint crease of the 2nd and/or 3rd finger. Right now, I can't make there be enough flesh there to brace the edge of the coin unless my 2nd/3rd finger(s) have too much bend. If building up some callus there is desirable, are there some best-practices for doing that safely? Or maybe there are other things I can do? Any advice appreciated. Thanks! Ken |
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mystre71 Inner circle martinsburg west virginia 1693 Posts |
Ken, you don't need a callus for FP. What size coins are you using ? Most use half dollars. If you have a large hand, you might want to try using dollar sized coins, or quarters for a smaller hand. You might be trying to grip the coin too tightly. This is a mistake I sometimes see people make when FPing. Ramsay has a nice touch of only using the 3rd finger to grip the coin lightly. Try that and see how it works for you.
Joe
Walk around coin box work check it out here https://www.magicalmystries.com/products
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Finger Palm has a natural curve to the hand. Focus on third finger lightly holding the coin as stated above. If necessary, change hands.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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MScapes New user New Brunswick, Canada 56 Posts |
I had the same issue and the solution was also to focus on the third finger only which allows the second finger to be free to help position it to have the hand look more natural
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Thanks guys. I have quite large hands and I'm using half-dollars. I have done as you say. in fact, that is the very advice David Roth gives in his DVDs. But that hasn't helped. What I end up looking like is someone whose ring finger has been half cut off. Her is what I have tried. Keeping my hand palm-down, I start with the coin in FP between the inner joint crease and the middle joint crease and the middle joint crease. When secure, the fingers (which look natural enough when my arm is dangling all the way down) have to curl too far (I think) in to look natural. So I tried releasing my grip little-by-little, straightening my my fingers out as I go, so that only the barest pressure is used to hold the coin, just before it drops out of my hand, and I think my fingers are still too curled.
Here are a couple of pictures - one from the side, and the other from roughly the front. Cheers! Ken |
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MScapes New user New Brunswick, Canada 56 Posts |
The hand does look more curled than it could be. Can you post a picture of the coin position?
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Dear Ken Ryan, you are over thinking and fussing over something that does not exist. I suggest you learn a complete trick and not just a Palm hold. It is very different to learn what a palm is, and to have a continuous routine or trick. No one actually stands around with a coin in their hand and does nothing with it. Go to Bobo's book and learn the Goshman Pitch, which is the move I use the finger palm most with. take an Centavo and a Half Dollar, exchange them using the Pitch.
If you are going to drop your hand to your side for more then two seconds, then normally, you would change to the Classic Palm. In coin magic, coins are not held for any length of time in one position. Once you learn some routines, then you will or should see how these secret placements are to be used properly. The only reason, it is said to spend some time with the coins in the Classic and Finger Palm is so that you become more comfortable and don't have to think about placement of the coin. It will naturally go to the correct location because your hand will have adapted the correct feel that it is in the correct place. There is also other more natural places to put your hand, like place your thumb in your waist behind your belt, or just hook your thumb over your front pocket opening on your pants. Hold a pencil, pen, or another coin. Finally, never look at your 'dirty' hand, and the spectator will not look at your hand. Remember, you will be looking and talking to the spectators. Good luck, and perform some tricks. |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Most of the top coin guys are finger palming with only the third finger. This allows the other fingers to extend more, giving the hand a more natural look.
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Bill,
Actually the entire reason I'm asking this is that during the context of learning a couple of routines, I noticed the FP wasn't working for the trick. I am aware that I wouldn't just be standing around holding the coin in FP. MScapes - here is a pic with the coin in position. I've extended the 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers a bit, using only the 3rd finger to hold the coin in place as Michael said. I can see how this would be a great advantage for the other fingers to extend. I was worried that it would still look unnatural to have one finger curled down like that, but I see that - as with a lot of things in magic - if you present the right angle, a spec can't even see the 3rd finger Thanks guys! Ken |
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MScapes New user New Brunswick, Canada 56 Posts |
Yes it will become more natural over time as Bill said, and the third finger can and will be bent more than the other two and will look just fine.
A few things to try regarding position. You can move it further towards your pinky so you catch the maximum width of the coin with your third finger. Also looks like you may be focused on the edge being in the joint of your knuckle rather than the other edge at the base... try having the coin nestled into the base of your finger and the 'top' edge landing wherever ... even past your joint and see how that feels and looks. The second and first fingers will gradually be more extended than the other |
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MScapes New user New Brunswick, Canada 56 Posts |
Also I personally wouldn't extend the pinky out, I have it follow the natural arc of the fingers bending from the first finger being most extended. You've got it, it may be more self awareness now... just forget about the coin, drop your hand to your side relaxed and see where your fingers naturally fall as they will be naturally curved
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mystre71 Inner circle martinsburg west virginia 1693 Posts |
It looks like you're trying to grip the coin too tightly. The coin should be held very lightly, just enough it stays in position.
Walk around coin box work check it out here https://www.magicalmystries.com/products
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2015, MScapes wrote: Thanks MScapes. That helps a lot. You're right that my mindset was to hold it between the two joint creases. I'll work on that and the pinky. Cheers! Ken |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Ken, You might also want to try lower FP, i.e. using ring finger and pinky. I believe this was Eddie Joseph's preference. I started with my FP that way and believe it helped. BTW, though your fingers seem more curled than necessary, your hand sure looks a lot like Mike Gallo's. No slouch there!
I think as others have said, it will become more natural for you. ESPECIALLY if you FB "ALL the time": driving, writing, eating, waiting for your wife while she's shopping, etc.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Ken, in your open exposed view photo, I note you are holding the coin more with the 3rd finger. I have always positioned the coin between the 2nd and 3rd fingers. It looks like you have the coin above the 3 flanges and not deep against the joint where the finger is attached to the palm. It looks like you have more then enough padding on your palm and fingers to easily hold the coin without much pressure.
To get the coin in the correct position, use the second flange joint to scoot the coin against the front of the palm, then if necessary use the thumb to press it down deep against the fingers. It looks like you have the coin to high against the front of the palm. It should be deeper so the extra skin holds in it place. A sleight relaxing of the fingers will release the coin. Much of the control is muscle of the skin. The fingers just move the coin into place. I hope I typed that clearly. |
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Thanks again for the added tips. I just started watching the David Roth DVDs and wow! That has helped in so many ways. It is super helpful to go back to basics and to have a master teaching and showing exactly how to do some of these things. Atom - funny thing about waiting for my wife when shopping. I was with her the other day at the grocery store, mainly just following her around, and practicing with my coin. After the 3rd time I dropped it on the hard (and loud) store floor, she said "OK, one more time and I take the coin:-P."
Anyway - thanks again! Ken |
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MScapes New user New Brunswick, Canada 56 Posts |
Haha, I love it! I can relate, it is big trouble for me if I drop a coin around m'lady.
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Prometheus Special user Europe 524 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 21, 2015, Atom3339 wrote: I can approve that, when you FP whenever you can, you will learn how to hold it secure all the time an you are able to easily work out how to hold your hand looking naturally with the coin.
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Prometheus |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 20, 2015, KenRyan wrote: :) that's great you are noticing and thinking about things. Also that you posted some pics. Getting comfortable holding out coins or cards in palm is an acquired skill. And it's all too easy to get settled into what feels correct instead of what looks right to an audience. Here's what I noticed from the photos; your thumb is curled and also appears flexed at the base joint. Can you straighten out your thumb so it's at what looks closer to a rest position? your fingers look curled as if holding a golf ball. Are they curled acomodate a concealment? What happens when you leave the palming to your third finger and let the other fingers curl in as in a rest position? One way to make that happen is to start in rest position then insert the coin - but only grip it with the third finger on one side and base of the second finger. There are other grips/clips availble and you might find the edge thumbpalm or Nowhere Palm or even the second finger curl palm useful. It really comes down to finding what sets comfortably in your hands so they appear as if at rest. Hope that helps, JonT
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts |
Thanks Jon - I will take what you suggested, along with what I picked up last night going over and over the David Roth DVD on the FP, and post another picture.
Cheers! Ken |
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