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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Should we boycott Derren Brown? (30 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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truman
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Is your tent any match for his jamming signals?
MatCult
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On Jan 27, 2015, truman wrote:
Is your tent any match for his jamming signals?

Psychic fight!
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IAIN
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Apart from banachek, does anyone actually go outside their place and positively contribute towards exposing the ones they feel are unethical? What do they do in their local community?

The answer "nothing, I cant be bothered" is fine, its just for me, whenever these kinds of debates drag on, I tend to think "if something bothers me that much, I go and contribute"...

...and I have.
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mastermindreader
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Unless they're doing gypsy style scams like the cursed money con, etc., there's really little to be done. Particularly in those jurisdictions where fortune-telling is perfectly legal. And since legit readers generally don't use any trickery, what's to expose? Cold reading? Barnum statements? That won't get you far.
IAIN
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I agree, however some people do not accept the idea that there are legit readers out there...more than anything, it just shows how biased they are and have unrealistic viewpoints on matters that they have only ever read about online or in the press...and that causes misinformation to spread...

I have as part of my pre-amble touch upon warning signs to look out for if they have been to see a psychic *whatever*, to be aware of what is happening during the reading - I feel its a healthy thing to do...
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Martin Pulman
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Logically, the only "legit" readers in a moral sense are those who do not have any repeat clients- and I imagine there are very few of those around.

I agree with Bob that there is little to be done about legal "psychics", other than directing friends and acquaintances to the work of people like Derren Brown- which is why what they do is so important.
Keith Raygor
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2015, Slim King wrote: Virtually no one knows of Derren Brown here in the states. And he has no show, so there wouldn't be anything to boycott.

Quote:
On Jan 27, 2015, Slim King wrote: If he'd come to Orlando I'd set up a Psychic Reading tent right outside the venue!!!!


I can see clearly through both sides of the fence.
MatCult
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On Jan 27, 2015, Martin Pulman wrote:
Logically, the only "legit" readers in a moral sense are those who do not have any repeat clients- and I imagine there are very few of those around.


Not sure I fully understand the logic of that statement. Could you explain? Sorry if I'm being dense.
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IAIN
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I completely agree with martin, with the caveat that if you do have a client list, it still boils down to the individual's ethics as well as how often those clients visits and so on...

If you are doing entertainment readings, then the only time its a client list is if they are hiring you to entertain...ive written about this and its a big bugbear of mine when some try to invoke a change in another person's life via mentalism and allied arts...thats not our job...
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Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2015, MatCult wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2015, Martin Pulman wrote:
Logically, the only "legit" readers in a moral sense are those who do not have any repeat clients- and I imagine there are very few of those around.


Not sure I fully understand the logic of that statement. Could you explain? Sorry if I'm being dense.


I would say if you are not offering life guidance or advice of any sort I can see no reason why someone would come to see you on multiple occassions? After all, you "entertained" them with your character reading the first time, no?
Chaz93
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It's possible to go back for repeat entertainment. I mean, do you not re-watch movies because once you've seen them you've got all the entertainment from them that you're going to get? Personally, I enjoy re-watching films and re-reading books that I find entertaining. At the moment, I'm watching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade for maybe the 100th time as I do my morning emails and whatnot.

Even without a reader offering life guidance or advice, perhaps the client returns because they are entertained? Perhaps it's a really cool character who has great people skills, good jokes, etc. etc.

I am glad that I can be entertained by something more than once. It would get far too expensive to be constantly looking for new forms of entertainment.
morgaine_le_fey
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On Jan 27, 2015, Chaz93 wrote:
It's possible to go back for repeat entertainment. I mean, do you not re-watch movies because once you've seen them you've got all the entertainment from them that you're going to get? Personally, I enjoy re-watching films and re-reading books that I find entertaining. At the moment, I'm watching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade for maybe the 100th time as I do my morning emails and whatnot.

Even without a reader offering life guidance or advice, perhaps the client returns because they are entertained? Perhaps it's a really cool character who has great people skills, good jokes, etc. etc.

I am glad that I can be entertained by something more than once. It would get far too expensive to be constantly looking for new forms of entertainment.


I'm not sure who it is you try to convince here -- one-on-one readings are entertaining because of the element of surprise. I've done thousands and I can tell you: as soon as you see a person for the second time, alarm bells SHOULD go off. Then you know these people need help, not entertainment. Smile
Chaz93
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I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just offering a point of view. You are free to take it or reject it as you will.
IAIN
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I remember being in Treadwells in London, the owner was on the phone, she is a very well educated and interesting woman...anywyay, a woman rang to be booked in for a proper full on, non entertainment reading...she interviewed the woman. Asked her many questions, her expectations, what she thought readings can do for her. She replied and the owner looked concerned and eventually said "no, sorry, readings cant do that for you...if you believe your boyfriend is cheating I recommend you talk to him about it honestly and openly. I wish you good luck with it."

Some more conversation and questions, followed by "sorry, but I could not do that for you. It doesn't work that way and I really would prompt you to visit your doctor for a recommendation of a mental health specialist. Good luck though and I hope you get the help you need."

That was about six years ago I think...and I thought what a great straight forward stance, and so lovely to hear. And I am willing to bet there are far more of her ilk out there, than the scammers.

Just remembered the reason for my post, she also explained that she will only read for the same person twice a year and no more.
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Slim King
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Quote:
On Jan 26, 2015, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 26, 2015, dyoung wrote:
On the flipside of this, I think they should expose Jerome Finley, Bill Montana and Scryer et. al. because they are going out there and doing it for real. not just for entertainment purposes. So let's get them! Somehow some psychics/"mentalists" are ok to attack and not others. What gives? The gentlemen I've named are, according to themselves, going out there doing it for real, whilst writing how-to books on essentially scamming people. Should we not publicly burn these people too?


I don't know Bill Montana's work, but the other two you mention could legitimately and ethically be exposed for scamming paying customers.

So you are attacking Café members then?
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Martin Pulman
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Are they Café members? I seem to recall Jerome Finley being banned for telling me to "!@#$ my mother", threatening to break my jaw and stating he was going to find out where I live and make my life hell - very spiritual of him.

As far as Neal Scryer is concerned, I believe that to be a pen name so I have no idea if he is a member?

In any event, it doesn't really matter to me. If they engage in unethical behaviour I think they should be called out on it. You can choose to see that as "attacking" if you wish; I see it as protecting the integrity of our wonderful performance art form. [/quote]If they engage in unethical behaviour I think they should be called out on it. You can choose to see that as "attacking" if you wish; I see it as protecting the integrity of our wonderful performance art form.
IAIN
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Out of interest, in what way are they scamming or ripping people off?
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Martin Pulman
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On Jan 27, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Out of interest, in what way are they scamming or ripping people off?

By telling their clients they are psychic while actually using conjuring techniques, cold reading and very basic A to Z mnemonic systems.

And in Finley's case by offering advice on diagnosing diseases such as cancer
IAIN
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Really? I hadn't heard about the cancer thing...is it talked about in his work or was it on here?

As for the psychic thing, I always took it to meant that it was role Scryer played...method acting as it were...

I know Jerome is a real life sangua priest - I have massively misspelled that, on my phone at the moment, can't check properly...

Posted: Jan 27, 2015 12:07 pm
Ah, this is his background...
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=320

It's a religion though isn't it, so it's all tied in with the belief system.
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Slim King
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It's people like Martin that make the Café caustic and keeps many great mentalists on the side line. The Café does much better when everyone is accepted as equals with none of Pulman's attacks against them. In my mind it is a discrimination against those who believe.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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