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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Should we boycott Derren Brown? (30 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Darkness
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Ya but balance it out boys, more positive is always better. Hey, I like a spirited debate too, but I don't typically start them or fan the fuel for 17 pages. I don't make it my MO, but I do realize some feel at home with relentless, challenging behavior. It does more bad (cafe reputation and lack of a variety of participants and loss of knowledge) than the actually topics we think we are doing good for imo.

I don't think you guys are under attack, unless you feel threatened? Please save that for the war, not every battle. Lets put it this way, if you're going to have a battle of wits, make sure your opponents are armed Smile Very few if any are deadly.

Should we boycott Derren Brown? If we respect the man, we should definitely not drag his good name into this tried conversation, just to make the same point again, that I think most can agree on, just to prove a couple people here wrong. You will never win the argument, they are baiting you and you are taking it hook line and sinker.

Sorry normally I don't come up to comment negatively and leave. I'll try to be more positive and join the threads that support that vibe. I hope what I do say makes "some good sense" and is relevant. All good, just trying to keep the peace at the risk of upsetting the guards. No disrespect intended.
Martin Pulman
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What you seem to be saying Darkness is that you only post negative comments when you disagree with the direction certain posts and topics take on the Café.

Same here.
mastermindreader
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Same here. And, I imagine, the same with everyone. Obviously, people will only post negative comments when they disagree with something. Smile

So congrats, guys, for being just like the rest of us.
IAIN
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Eternal Order
england
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I've helped run a few forums, forums are always only as good as its participants...the only way a theme or atmosphere changes on a forum, is if its users contribute positive or negatively to "it"...so if you don't like something, or feel its going too much one way or the other, start your own thread, discussing what YOU think is great, good, interesting or whatever...

and no, I am not saying "don't post negative comments when you disagree"...i'm saying try to do both...you become happier that way...you get to share your positive thoughts on something you hold dear...i like reading those far more...
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Keith Raygor
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, Darkness wrote:
This seems like Martins Café. One of the reasons I hide in the basement. Come visit its a less confrontation vibe for the most part and you are free to discuss 3 degrees of separation without harsh judgement, imo.


Darkness, I appreciate your dropping in and am intrigued by your choice in this part of your first (I think) post in this thread. It caught me off-guard because I didn't think you were heading towards Martin as your example of the confrontation and harshness. You did not say Slim's Café. Typically, I've viewed Martin's posts as responses, not as instigations. His beliefs appear to be more black and white than mine and most others, but he is usually cogent while writing with conviction.

Slim has spent years highlighting his strong dissatisfaction with successful entertainers (Max Maven, Penn and Teller, Derren Brown, Banachek, Criss Angel, etc.). He has spent thousands of posts speaking rudely and harshly to anyone with beliefs different than his, he relishes the role of instigator, and his effect on serious discussions is unquestionable.

Yet you chose "Martin's Café" as one of the reasons you hide in the basement. It left me thinking that I must be missing something that you're seeing. I'm sincerely interested in understanding your point in choosing Martin instead of Slim as an example of confrontation and harsh judgement.
Bill Cushman
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"his effect on serious discussions is unquestionable." Keith, I think that is precisely how Slim would describe things! Smile
Keith Raygor
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Good point, Bill.
Darkness
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No Martin, I'm "clearly" saying those who are overly confrontational, or can't let it go on "both sides", need to find a harmonious balance so that the Penny is a place that may enjoy a welcoming atmosphere, to encourage others to participate. Can we agree it has a bad reputation that goes beyond disagreeing? Please don't gloss over my core comment and reason for posting. Like I said, I like a good respectful debate. Like the one we are having. Why can't it be like that? Finding tone is hard but not impossible.

The aggressive overtones on both side often go on "too long". Make your "spirited" point and move on. Can we agree to that at least? That's really what I "seem" to be saying. It's a respectful and reasonable request, and allows everyone to post good or bad. If anyone wants to be the "guard" so to speak, be more of a facilitator. We could use someone in that capacity (and no I'm not volunteering Smile ).

Keith it was not me that coined the phrase "Martin's Café" (read the post before to understand how others share similar views). I was just agreeing and using it as a current example that's all. Of course Martin and Slim can be valuable contributors as well, but Bill that's not what we are talking about is it? Slim you also need to find balance imo and a couple others I won't mention. Smile

Anyways, I think I have been articulate and clear. There is really no need for me to go on Smile Food for thought guys.

I will try to stay downstairs.....
The Hermit
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Quote:
On Jan 29, 2015, Darkness wrote:
No Martin, I'm "clearly" saying those who are overly confrontational, or can't let it go on "both sides", need to find a harmonious balance so that the Penny is a place that may enjoy a welcoming atmosphere, to encourage others to participate. Can we agree it has a bad reputation that goes beyond disagreeing? Please don't gloss over my core comment and reason for posting. Like I said, I like a good respectful debate. Like the one we are having. Why can't it be like that? Finding tone is hard but not impossible.

The aggressive overtones on both side often go on "too long". Make your "spirited" point and move on. Can we agree to that at least? That's really what I "seem" to be saying. It's a respectful and reasonable request, and allows everyone to post good or bad. If anyone wants to be the "guard" so to speak, be more of a facilitator. We could use someone in that capacity (and no I'm not volunteering Smile ).

Keith it was not me that coined the phrase "Martin's Café" (read the post before to understand how others share similar views). I was just agreeing and using it as a current example that's all. Of course Martin and Slim can be valuable contributors as well, but Bill that's not what we are talking about is it? Slim you also need to find balance imo and a couple others I won't mention. Smile

Anyways, I think I have been articulate and clear. There is really no need for me to go on Smile Food for thought guys.

I will try to stay downstairs.....


Darkness
Your posts seem to be largely pointless to me. Martin can post anything he wants and we can ignore or comment. Same for Slim. You can also post about people not being balanced and we can ignore you as well. Welcoming, schmelcoming. You should only post if you feel strongly and have an opinion (good, bad or indifferent). I don't see Martin slagging anyone. I may think he is wrong sometimes, but he makes his point clearly. Slim a bit more spirited, but seems to come from honest opinions. Positioning yourself as some 'voice of reason' is as off-putting as others are with their jabs. Your other snarky response to Martin shows you are just as disparaging as those you condemn. By what measure do you feel you have the right to determine the course and progress of anything? Puffery.
MaskedTroll
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Why do people worry so much about Derren Brown?
Don't they have something better to do, like practising Magic Tricks and Mentalism?

Why boycott him? Because he is more successfull than they are? (No offense to people like Bob, who are famous) Do you just envy him?

There are so many worse mentalists out there than Derren Brown, who use their bad skills to rip off less intelligent people. :/

Just let it be, focus on yourself and get better. In my opinion Derren Brown is a really good entertainer and people don't see any of us as more than entertainers that , like the name says, entertain them.

Money also plays a big role. Be different, be better. He just claims to do his Tricks with NLP, Suggesions and "Mind Control".

Also don't forget, what people say, is not what they are thinking.
magic4545
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, george1953 wrote:
When I see these sort of stories I just can't believe how gullible some people are, if he could know the lottery numbers why hasn't he won it. Why does he have to work and send out leaflets. Come on wake up.
Next you will be telling me that I don't really have a rich Nigerian uncle either.

Then, investment companies would just invest, instead of million dollar ad campaigns on tv. Same thing, imho.

Another indicator is the concept that psychics use called "party talk" where only light concepts are discussed.

These are why I make disclaimers and always emphasize my intent to only entertain. But, that's what I need to do for ME.

So, who do we sit down for dinner with and who do we avoid in our lives?

I'm trying to be more open minded in these things, but sometimes it's really hard. Jerome is brilliant and a really great friend, but his psychic work is not what I usually endorse. I feel that he is doing what he does in the tradition of wise witch doctors. And he has a beautiful giving nature. I trust him with the torch.

It comes down to the equivalent of a high school popularity contest, at the end of the day. It's really hard to stay objective.

Every day we're subjected to the evil that people do through entitlement and exploitation.

Why should we be trusted? Are we just selling confidence?
CThomas
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I haven't seen anyone suggest boycotting Brown. Martin was obviously mentioning that not as a suggestion but rather in an effort to make a point about the consistency of some people's thinking in this area. Anyway, I'm seemingly in the minority on this, but my impression is that Martin and Slim are two of the least hostile posters around here. You're obviously welcome to disagree with Martin's points, but it seems to me that he always makes excellent, cogent arguments on the merits, without any ad hominem attacks or attempts to pull rank. And I'm just completely baffled by the hostility toward Slim. There is this idea floating around that Slim has all these wacky beliefs about psychic powers, but -- while I have not gone through and reviewed every last thing he has posted -- at least the vast majority of his posts, if not all of them, say nothing that the most hardened skeptic could not agree with. And I have no clue why people say he is argumentative or nasty. I don't know either of these guys -- I'm just going by their recent writings on this message board.

CT

Quote:
On Jan 30, 2015, MaskedTroll wrote:
Why do people worry so much about Derren Brown?
Don't they have something better to do, like practising Magic Tricks and Mentalism?

Why boycott him? Because he is more successfull than they are? (No offense to people like Bob, who are famous) Do you just envy him?

There are so many worse mentalists out there than Derren Brown, who use their bad skills to rip off less intelligent people. :/

Just let it be, focus on yourself and get better. In my opinion Derren Brown is a really good entertainer and people don't see any of us as more than entertainers that , like the name says, entertain them.

Money also plays a big role. Be different, be better. He just claims to do his Tricks with NLP, Suggesions and "Mind Control".

Also don't forget, what people say, is not what they are thinking.
innermind
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suburban Detroit
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 28, 2015, Martin Pulman wrote:
I think many people have missed the point of my question - that is probably my fault for wording it poorly. Everyone is welcome to their beliefs in ESP, tarot, dowsing or the Loch Ness Monster. I simply don't understand why a mentalism forum has to be polluted by such beliefs.

We are illusionists of the mind. I happen to think that is a pretty noble and difficult pursuit involving acting skills, stagecraft, vocal technique, physical skills, audience management and, hopefully, charisma.


*please read this in a non-confrontational, polite tone*
firstly, the term "polluted" is somewhat negative - is that fair?

...i get that you don't like those things, but this forum isn't just for you and your beliefs/views...that would be Martin's Café...so those people who do believe such things and also study and/or perform mentalism are completely within their rights to bring those things to the surface (nessie pun not meant), because they may use them in their performance..so its natural to want to discuss those things...i am a bit surprised that you are against those things, as I think you mentioned performing ESP based routines yourself, and being an actor - surely you research these things because it can add extra layers to a presentation...

and for some people, they may not want to be seen as an "illusionist of the mind", whatever that is...they may want something else out of it, because what they do is entirely personal to them...i find it odd that you are trying to somewhat censor people with those beliefs (esp, tarot, dowsing and so on) because our books are packed full of those things for performing (or at least studying)...

so what exactly do you consider suitable for discussion martin? and would it be too much to ask for you to start a thread on something that you enjoy please?





Thank you for this post Iain. It certainly falls under the (IMO)underused and under appreciated concepts of 'to each...his own' and 'live...and let live'. Iain hit the nail on the head by stating the often overlooked obvious that the Café is not just for one person, but rather for many people with varying beliefs/views.

I will follow-up Iain's thoughts with this:
If one does not like the subject matter of a thread...then don't click on it!!! Pretty simple really. Again, this is related to the concept of 'to each...his own'. No one is forcing anybody to click on, or participate in any of the threads. Again, if you don't like the subject matter of a thread...then please don't participate in that particular thread! One has to think, Duh!....at the simplicity of that idea!

In other words---Check your egos at the door and let other folks discuss their business....STOP BEING FORUM POLICEMEN!



That being said, I believe this Café has grown into a monster with way too many sub-forum options with too many choices/overlap. Some house cleaning/consolidation might be in order. But...that's another subject. As it stands now on the Café, we are currently inside 'Penny for your thoughts', which is a sub-forum of 'The Attic'. It's my personal opinion that threads relating to psi readings should probably be located in the next forum down the list, entitled 'The Cellar'....more specifically, the sub-forum called 'The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre!'

And of course in the area called 'The Banquet Room' which is often referred to as 'Downstairs', we have two more in-depth versions of the forums I mentioned above....'Inner thoughts', and 'Inside the Crypt'.

What say you folks? Do you also believe that the subject of psi readings should be relegated to 'The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre!', and its companion forum downstairs, 'Inside the Crypt'?

As a professional intuitive reader, I would find it easier/more convenient if threads regarding psi readings would all be located in one forum (The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre!), and its companion forum downstairs (Inside the Crypt).



Again...thanks Iain.





David
"Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else." -Will Rogers
mastermindreader
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David- That makes a good deal of sense.
Martin Pulman
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Couldn't agree more. Hopefully the readers among us will follow your excellent suggestion.
innermind
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Well then....perhaps as a community, we can compel/suggest to the moderators to move any psi reading related threads/topics which are created in 'Penny for your thoughts' down to 'The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre!' (inside 'The Cellar')... and move similar threads/topics which are created in 'Inner thoughts' down to 'Inside the Crypt' (inside 'The Banquet Room').

Sounds like a plan!


Thanks.





David
"Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else." -Will Rogers
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