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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1534 Posts 
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote: Totally.
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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Bob,
I am aware of the endless discussions on this here in the Café. I have a few of your works, but more methodologies, not theory. I can handle defining mentalism as "not primarily focused on comedy" - but it is defining by a negative, which is tricky. It is also very subjective. Who determines the what the primary objective is in a performance piece? The performer, the audience, another? I assume if a person does something in a performance that is is universally accepted as magic, you can't see any part of the performance as mentalism, right? That is what you meant by Cody doing a rope trick? So can we add this to the definition: "Any performance that contains "magic" cannot contain mentalism." ? It still is defining by the negative, and I really have a problem with that. We can also add Psychological mentalism to the list. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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No. I'd say that mentalism, included in a magic show, isn't mentalism at all. It's mental magic.
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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Bob, Sorry, I thought that is what I said . . .
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Not exactly. You said, ""Any performance that contains 'magic' cannot contain mentalism."
I said, "Mentalism included in a magic show, isn't mentalism at all. It's mental magic." Those are two entirely different statements if you read them carefully. Dunninger, as is frequently noted, often opened with a production bag or the linking rings and Kreskin frequently uses the linking finger rings. The key difference is that their performances aren't presented as magic shows. The bottom line is that neither Dunninger nor Kreskin present themselves as magicians. Their mentalism is not part of a "magic show" and is only incidental in their mentalism programs. I think Dunninger and Kreskin were able to include incidental magic because they already had established reputations as thought readers. Most mentalists don't, and that's why I've always recommended not mixing the two at all. |
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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Ok, just keeping track -the different types of mentalism include:
Classic mentalism Psychic presentation mentalism Psychological mentalism Body language mentalism Stage mentalism Corporate mentalism Strolling mentalism Table-hopping mentalism Close up mentalism Informal mentalism Pub mentalism Real mentalism Jazz mentalism Street mentalism Magic mentalism Comedy mentalism TV mentalism 90 second talent show mentalism YouTube mentalism Tarot mentalism Spiritualist mentalism Mediumship mentalism Real psychic mentalism Corner store psychic mentalism Astrological mentalism Shamanistic mentalism Faith healing mentalism... It may actually be easier these days to ask - is there anything that ISN'T mentalism? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Not according the all of the magicians who are now putting "Magician/Mentalist" on their business cards.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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You missed out 'armchair'...
I've asked to be banned
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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Bob,
Ok, so if a show is primarily a magic or comedy show, any "mentalism" performed is mental magic. This is because the comedy and magic performed reduce or eliminate the plausibility of mentalism. Is this right? One thing I have noticed is this is about acts, not routines. Mentalism is more about the act as a whole than in individual routine. An individual routine can be considered Mentalism in one act and Mental Magic in another, depending on the focus of the show. Does this sound right? KC |
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, Martin Pulman wrote: You left out "on the bus Mentalism". There was a guy here a few years ago asking would it be a good idea to practice his "Mentalism" on the bus! 
He really was a "Day Tripper"!! 
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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Innercirclewannabe
Recognizing the humor and frustration of Martin's post, your comment makes me ask, can Mentalism be practiced in only certain locations or people? If I could truly read minds, being on a bus, while not glamorous at all, would not prohibit my mind reading. In fact, it could be quite humorous to know what the fellow riders were thinking! KC |
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts
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Hopefully you could recognise the humour in my reply too, although, I do remember reading that post a few years ago. I suppose if I wanted to go around trying to convince anyone & everyone, KC, that what I do is "real", then, there is nothing stopping me. However, I don't want to do that, and I don't think the vast majority of people on the bus would want me to do it either.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1534 Posts
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KC- IMHO, mentalism is only for the stage... Any other place will just trivialize the art.
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, E.E. wrote: I wouldn't agree with you on that. Think TV/Radio - done correctly, this will actually improve the Art.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, IAIN wrote: I think it could possibly be healthier for mentalism as a whole if more people confined their interest to the armchair. |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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I do recognise the humor, but why convince anyone? I find it easiest to let them convince themselves. Trying to convince someone, for me anyway, tends to put up a "challenge atmosphere" and that hurts any plausibility of mine.
I also find the TV shows "The Mentalist" and "The Listener" to be interesting, since that is two different ways of how the public would perceive "true" mentalism. They are generally not about trying to convince people of their "powers", they just do their thing. It is not so much what they do, but who they are. |
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1534 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, innercirclewannabe wrote: Done correctly is the key phrase... TV, Radio and Stage then. Any other place will just trivialize the art. 
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2015, E.E. wrote: Even though most of my work is on stage, I have to disagree. I've performed in innumerable lounges, private parties, lodge shows, platform shows, club dates of all descriptions, nightclubs/comedy clubs, and corporate banquets, as well as cruise ships -in addition to radio and television. The truth is that there are very few mentalists who only perform on theatrical stage. And I don't know any mentalist who started out on one. |
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1534 Posts
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So, any kind of stage plataform is adequate, and only the mentalism that isn't performed on a stage (strolling mentalism) trivializes the art?
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts
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EE,
I personally only perform "mentalism"* (my definition anyway*), in stage and parlour situation situations. I have done close-up mentalism using Turner style, and it was received very strongly, perhaps more strongly because it was so personal and not as comedic. I do think most of the time, in close-up conditions it is presented as a magic trick, and that does hurt things. Still, I don't think people will stop believing anytime soon. It is in our DNA. KC |
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Posted: Feb 3, 2015 05:18 pm 
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