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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Against All Odds By Alakazam Magic (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ManchurianMan83
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Quote:
On Feb 19, 2015, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
If you have to justify a prop as to what it is or where it comes from then it's probably going to look like a prop to the spectator.
--------------------
Adult spectators that do not know the suits or values of playing cards are rare indeed, I'm sure they exist but I personally have yet to meet one, but then I've only been at this for a little over 30 years both privately and professionally.


I'm sorry but I disagree with you on the prop justification thing.
Justification issue aside for a moment however and in regards to the 'suspiciousness' of such an item...

How do you know there isn't some niche toy shop/gadget shop somewhere that sells a jokey deck of cards for people to randomly select their next lottery numbers?
How do you know I didn't get such a deck by my friend for Xmas?

The fact that the cards are even lottery balls suggests a quirky fun jokey type of deck too.
Point is, It's not impossible that such a deck might actually exist!
----------------

As for my point about spectators not knowing suits names, that wasn't really the main point I was trying to emphasize.
I was just saying it has been known to happen.
I've personally experienced it myself and that's all we can reference right?
The main point however is that nobody outside magicians and maybe keen poker players cares enough about a deck of cards to have their ears to the ground about what is and isn't considered a valid deck that one could actually purchase?
Just because WHSmiths or Waterstones (insert major retailer here) don't sell them doesn't mean such a thing is immediately out of place if you say 'Have you seen one of these before?'

God, I'm sure there's a ton of things I have yet to realise is 'a thing' until I come across it one day!

If not 'magician thinking' then I feel it's that saying 'running when not chased'.
It's only a suspicious prop if you make it so by treating it like one!

Act like its a dodgy deck and it will make them 'feel' like it's a dodgy deck.
Mark_Chandaue
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Well the fact that google doesn't turn up a single such deck of cards worldwide nor does a search on Amazon and nor does a search on eBay so I would say that like me the average person on the street and 99.9% of the audiences I perform for have never seen such a deck.

My guess is you are a magician rather than a mentalist and I'd hazard a guess that you haven't a vast number of years experience of working professionally if any. The reality is that whether it exists in some tiny niche shop in the outer reaches of the aba Congo or not the average spectator is never going to have seen one and so it's a prop.

Not an issue for a magician beyond the fact they might want to look at the deck (which does not appear possible) even if only because they have never seen one before. The spectator knows you are doing tricks and expects you to have props and even "trick decks of cards" but for a mentalist there are far cleaner ways of performing a lottery prediction with a real lottery ticket. Let's face it, even when using pure sleight of hand, how often do spectators ask "is that a trick deck". If you think spectators don't know about trick decks you haven't been in this game nearly long enough.

As far as close up lottery predictions I have one version using technology and a version that doesn't, neither uses anything unusual or abnormal, in fact for one the only "prop" involved is a note pad, the other it is two of my business cards, the procedure in both cases is very fair with spectators selecting numbers freely, in the low tech version their choices are limited whilst giving the illusion of a free choice, in the tech version they simply call out any 6 numbers. In neither case do I use anything that any spectator would find unusual or would consider anything but an everyday object. Neither the note pad nor the business cards are necessary, a napkin could be used instead. The only thing I need for one of the versions, that the spectators themselves won't be carrying, is a sharpie marker and that never actually has to be in play or seen by the spectators, I could have a spectator write the numbers with their own pen if I so choose.

Both versions look less like a magic trick than this. For a magician I think this is a fine piece of mental magic, for a mentalist the close up version plays out too much like a card trick for my personal tastes, as a magician it may be right up your street. Scott Creasey's also is also closer to mentalism in my personal opinion.

The stage version with the 6 person chair test and magic square etc does interest me, that sounds more like a mentalism feature than a card trick. I like the way Peter Nardi thinks and so I would definitely be interested in that part of the package even if I have to replace the supplied cards with hand written numbers on index cards.

Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
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ManchurianMan83
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Quote:
On Feb 19, 2015, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Well the fact that google doesn't turn up a single such deck of cards worldwide nor does a search on Amazon and nor does a search on eBay so I would say that like me the average person on the street and 99.9% of the audiences I perform for have never seen such a deck.


That a spectator would never have seen such a deck was never my point though!

Quote:
On Feb 19, 2015, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
My guess is you are a magician rather than a mentalist


I am both yet neither.
I don't personally subscribe to this ethos of 'you are one or the other'.

I explore methods from all avenues of the art whether they come from magic or mentalism, using or adapting those that fit with my personal needs as a performer.
Much like the late great Bruce Lee's philosophy with the Martial Arts.
Why think restrictively?
To class yourself is to limit yourself.


Not that I would ever compare myself to a legend such as he.
However I am deeply inspired by, and subscribe to, that approach and philosophy among many others.

Quote:
On Feb 19, 2015, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
As far as close up lottery predictions I have one version using technology and a version that doesn't, neither uses anything unusual or abnormal, in fact for one the only "prop" involved is a note pad, the other it is two of my business cards, the procedure in both cases is very fair with spectators selecting numbers freely, in the low tech version their choices are limited whilst giving the illusion of a free choice, in the tech version they simply call out any 6 numbers. In neither case do I use anything that any spectator would find unusual or would consider anything but an everyday object. Neither the note pad nor the business cards are necessary, a napkin could be used instead. The only thing I need for one of the versions, that the spectators themselves won't be carrying, is a sharpie marker and that never actually has to be in play or seen by the spectators, I could have a spectator write the numbers with their own pen if I so choose.


Like I said a few posts back, and with absolutely no disrespect intended at all, a routine like that is a great 'spectator reading' effect but I don't feel is a true 'prediction of the lottery'.

Remember that if you were to attempt to predict the National Lottery this week you will be dealing with a machine that will toss out random numbers...numbers aren't named by an audience member or any human input for that matter.

For me the use of a deck such as this allows you to recreate what would actually happen on TV (numbers are mixed and selected at random with absolutely no psychological bias) and therefore is a more accurate way of demonstrating the answer to the question 'can you predict the lottery?'

Proving you predicted the six numbers a spectator names, while no doubt a great effect, is however a different effect, even if it is themed as a pretend lottery.

if someone asks me 'can you predict the lottery?' and I respond 'let's see...here's a lottery ticket, hold on to that...just name 6 numbers' and they're correct, if those numbers don't turn up on national TV that week then you still haven't achieved it!
Now if however those six numbers also later turn up on TV then you can take that credit although in that case you need to share that prestige with your spectator who happened to also name those numbers!! :p

Now, I appreciate the spectator would still be both amazed by you predicting their named numbers and also convinced that now you have successfully demonstrated predicting the lottery..strange though that may be because you clearly haven't...but personally I see merit in using a deck like this, or Lee Earle's if you so choose, and actually pinpointing to them in the presentation the need to recreate 'Lottery conditions'..random unbias selection of the numbers.

Humble opinion of course! Smile
ManchurianMan83
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Mine arrived this morning.
For anyone interested I will post my honest thoughts on this once I have had a chance to play around with the deck and look at the DVD's ideas and routines.
Kbuck54
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I think it's OK, but, I'll stick with Cataclysm.
Keith Shazam
SHAZAM!
mysticalsales
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Hard to beat Cataclysm, that is one solid routine.
MJG
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Any more reviews on this yet? Interested in picking it up but I can't help thinking it might be a little long winded for what it is.
TheGreatRaymondo
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I bought this from Alakazam at Blackpool on Friday after being interested in it beforehand and a chat / demo from Mr Nardi on his stand.
I like it and I like it a lot. There is some very serious bulls***t talked in this thread by people who have never even seen the effect never mind performed it!
Trust me - it's a worker! Easy to perform with the spectator doing a lot of the handling and the reveal is pretty hard hitting for the layman. To leave them with a real and 'live' lottery ticket after they have 'predicted' the numbers themselves should not be under estimated.

The patter & performance as always is down to the magician so the delivery is down to YOU and not the effect itself.
I give this a 8/10. To under estimate this effect is your loss.
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
pegasus
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Quote:
On Feb 22, 2015, TheGreatRaymondo wrote:
I bought this from Alakazam at Blackpool on Friday after being interested in it beforehand and a chat / demo from Mr Nardi on his stand.
I like it and I like it a lot. There is some very serious bulls***t talked in this thread by people who have never even seen the effect never mind performed it!
Trust me - it's a worker! Easy to perform with the spectator doing a lot of the handling and the reveal is pretty hard hitting for the layman. To leave them with a real and 'live' lottery ticket after they have 'predicted' the numbers themselves should not be under estimated.

The patter & performance as always is down to the magician so the delivery is down to YOU and not the effect itself.
I give this a 8/10. To under estimate this effect is your loss.


Hang on. Is that not going to cost you two pounds a time to hand out that ticket?
DavidMac
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Quote:
On Feb 23, 2015, pegasus wrote:
Hang on. Is that not going to cost you two pounds a time to hand out that ticket?


Yes it would, not owing it I couldn't comment on the routine or props but would assume that you would probably only perform this one a gig and £2 out of your fee isn't going to be much.
Mark_Chandaue
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The cards are very nicely made, apparently they are thinking of making decks that can be switched in. The close up version is, as I have already said, a nice piece of mental magic. My biggest issue with it is that currently if a spectator wants to take a look at the cards because they have never seen a deck before and they look interesting you have to say no and when that happens (and over 30 years experience of performing to real people tells me that it will) that is going to look extremely suspicious. This shouldn't be an issue for the stage version and so once the demo of the stage routine has been filmed I will take another look at this.

Mark
Mark Chandaue A.I.M.C.
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ManchurianMan83
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Mark, I 100% agree with you.
That is exactly the reason funnily enough why I e-mailed them to see if they would consider making a switch in deck too.
Not even for a situation where they want to 'examine' the deck necessarly, but I can imagine as you say you WILL get a situation where due to the unique nature of the deck, they will want to just look at it out of curiousity, So I too was pleased to hear them write back and say Peter is already considering it.

I don't think it's something you 'consider' however, I think for close up it's pretty much a must!
As you say, if anyone asks 'oh a lottery deck that sounds cool. Can I have a look?'
There should be no reason why you should be saying no!
TheStoner
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Agreed. For close-up use another "standard" deck (and a deck sw***h) would make this so much stronger and more usable in the real world.
pegasus
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Great idea. 2 decks to carry around and a deck switch when you're being eyeballed by the crowd. Why not just switch in the winning cards?? Lol.
ManchurianMan83
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Actually the deck s****h for this will have perfect timing and motivation and besides, switching in the winning cards after they've been selected would be silly!
If anything is going to be 'eyeballed by the crowd' it's going to be the six selected cards and the ticket.
pegasus
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This is brilliant comedy. Smile
ManchurianMan83
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Quote:
On Feb 23, 2015, pegasus wrote:
This is brilliant comedy. Smile


I know right! I'll certainly hire you again! :p

Are we really going to sit here and debate wether you can or can't switch a deck without it being noticed?
if so, I have just one answer to that!


Extractor

I use that all the time and that requires two decks and in some cases MULTIPLE s*****s (bk and forth).
The key is you do it at a time where the deck is not the focus!

Sorry but if the crowd are watching the deck and not the six selected cards and the lottery ticket to see what the outcome is by that point, then I say you're performing it badly!
TheGreatRaymondo
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Quote:
On Feb 22, 2015, pegasus wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 22, 2015, TheGreatRaymondo wrote:
I bought this from Alakazam at Blackpool on Friday after being interested in it beforehand and a chat / demo from Mr Nardi on his stand.
I like it and I like it a lot. There is some very serious bulls***t talked in this thread by people who have never even seen the effect never mind performed it!
Trust me - it's a worker! Easy to perform with the spectator doing a lot of the handling and the reveal is pretty hard hitting for the layman. To leave them with a real and 'live' lottery ticket after they have 'predicted' the numbers themselves should not be under estimated.

The patter & performance as always is down to the magician so the delivery is down to YOU and not the effect itself.
I give this a 8/10. To under estimate this effect is your loss.



Hang on. Is that not going to cost you two pounds a time to hand out that ticket?


Yes it is. If you have a problem with that I can only presume you are from Yorkshire?




:-)
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
Jared
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Here's a couple of links I found related to playing cards being used to assist selecting lottery numbers:

http://zyra.info/lot010.htm
http://www.google.com/patents/US5718432

There are many ways to accomplish the same effect in close-up situations. Another alternative would be to perform Confabulation (example, Dream Prediction Elite) with or without playing cards for the spectator to draw the random numbers. Anyway, I do like the look of 'Against All Odds" because of having the option to offer a genuine lottery ticket as a souvenir. There's nothing wrong with have a few options available to achieve the same result in your toolbox.
TheGreatRaymondo
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I have now performed this on numerous occasions to real, live people and audiences.
The reactions are strong!
As I have said previously - under estimate this one at your peril.
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
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