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Dr. Fellshadow New user Hollywood, CA 15 Posts |
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On Mar 13, 2015, MatCult wrote: Thank you... (Not my first time to the "Spooky Section" though). My intention was not to come off in an "abrasive tone" which is why I prefaced my comment with the word "respectfully" I am allowed to share my thoughts and opinions, like everyone else here correct? I hope so... Lest we forget, chat boards are a useful, yet highly poor form of communication, things can be read and misread many ways and from many different angles. If my mere comments and opinions are taken too personally, then perhaps the sensitive types should disregard my post and continue on to the next one? I'm more of the up-close and personal type, direct communication. I'm not into sugar-coating things. It has been my experience that many of us are comfortable though, so comfortable in fact that a mere response or challenging question or critique or opinion will make us emotionally charged and we are quick to get on the defensive. It's a little "childish" if you ask me. (I'm not referring to anyone specifically, just been my observation over the years). Too many of us are "comfortable" in every sense of the word. I believe that improvement in our craft and as human beings comes from challenging questions, deep thinking, and philosophical/psychological reasoning and most importantly self-improvement AND self-reflection (thus my above post/opinion). There are some who are passive and others who are active. I am the latter. Always humbly improving and transforming. A stagnant mind is just a toxic as stagnant water... The Kybalion asserts everything is moving and flowing, nothing rests, everything is in motion, ever-vibrating. As for myself, I've been performing "Bizarre Magick" for a little over 9 years. I have been around longer though. I may be forgotten, yet I would be a familiar face to some of our greatest. I am one who likes to remain in the background and underground for many reasons... Been working on a lot of things, in many different venues and disciplines. Like a ghost, I have been watching for a long time, yet am invisible (except perhaps to those who want to see me). Seems like my mere comment has rubbed a few in here the wrong way, again that was never my intention. I am much more powerful than I thought! That being said, I tend to disregard the messenger, and focus on the message (with a few exceptions)... One part of my message was a comment, the other part was a very valid question. It has been said that the truth don't hurt none but the guilty?! My closing question is still unanswered... "I'm curious to know if anyone is "passing on the craft" to the younger generations?... Does anyone have a student?" It's just a simple question really. Respectfully, Nlongi P.S. Perhaps, I should have started off my initial post with a Bizarre suggestion to the original posters question? My answer is "Portrait of Lydia Marsh" by our beloved Mary Tomich. |
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Dr. Fellshadow New user Hollywood, CA 15 Posts |
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On Mar 13, 2015, Al Desmond wrote: Respectfully, please refer to my second post above. Your answer feels more uppity ("BECAUSE WE CAN AFFORD IT") than my original post, in my opinion. Those that really know me would never label me as "uppity" yet then again, knowing that you probably don't know me and that texting and chat boards are such poor forms of communication where things get easily misunderstood, I'll move beyond your label. That having been said, you neglected to answer my question, "Do you have someone from the younger generation who you are 'passing on the craft' to?" Or can you afford not to? Respectfully, Nlongi |
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Godzilla Inner circle Tied & Untied Witches on 5316 Posts |
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On Mar 13, 2015, Nlongi Yilwa wrote: Welcome to Spooky, Nlongi. In Vein, would be better here. You will find the greatest and most caring people here in Spooky. As for me, I plan to pass all my Magick on to a Grandchild(Him or Her) whenever I have one. It will be their chose to keep or get rid of. If they do not want the Magick, maybe they can sell for cash for education ! Gary
"If you watch Godzilla backwards, it's about a big ass lizard who helps rebuild a half burnt-down city, then moonwalks back into the ocean"
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts |
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On Mar 15, 2015, Nlongi Yilwa wrote: Brimming with pomposity, Matched only by verbosity. He's here to save us from ourselves, he thinks. With far too much assumption About levels of consumption, This lady doth protest too much methinks.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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PROF BC Inner circle 1445 Posts |
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On Mar 13, 2015, Nlongi Yilwa wrote: Well, it is really all a question of focus and choice, isn't it? Your original posting (quoted above) suggests a philosophical leaning towards the ascetic--abjuring the idea of 'he who dies with the most toys wins.' There is clearing nothing wrong with your world view, nor are you wrong to express your philosophical leanings. There are many in this world who would heartily agree with you. Good for you. You have very clearly taken a journey that has led you at last to embrace a philosophy of asceticism that gives you peace and makes sense in your given circumstance. Peace of mind is a great gift, and I cheer your having achieved such. What some of the posted reactions suggest, however, is an equally reasonable objection to the tone of your post, which, despite stating a wish to be respectful, does nevertheless propound your philosophy as the only acceptable approach to life. It clearly is not. While it has brought peace to you, it could as easily seem empty and even sterile to another. Why collect, you ask, and I answer that the whole world is a collection of great beauty and intricate detail. Those who wish to bring the joy of objects into their lives and homes and to surround themselves with that tangible expression of human achievement that they most appreciate are no more wrong in their appreciations of life than you are in the philosophy that gives you comfort. To be sure, we take none of these 'things' with us when we go, as you say, but how is that any reason not to enjoy and appreciate them while we are here? You might just as well argue that we should not eat or breathe because such activity fails to prolong life indefinitely. I for one am very glad for the 'collection addiction' that encouraged and saved the great works of humanity ranging from da Vinci and Dante to Shakespeare and Ansel Adams. Every great library and museum is created by such a human impulse as you question in your post, and I for one applaud and embrace that impulse. For me, a university professor and professional archivist, such an impulse would appear to have passed far more along to succeeding generations than has ever the ascetic desire to please oneself in the celebration of simplicity through the creation of nothing. As to your next question about passing on the legacy to students. Every performance is a gift. Every collector creates a repository for the next generation. While I personally lecture and have taught many hundreds, if indeed not thousands, of students in literature, performance, writing, and magic, I would not be so bold (as you have been) to suggest that direct tuition is the sine qua non of this craft. We are entertainers. Not every actor or singer is a teacher, nor should they be. It is enough to appreciate the craft. To buy and listen to or watch a record or disc--and again to collect those performances that give us pleasure--this is enough, and it is valuable for it encourages the performer to continue. Collecting is not merely consuming, my friend, as you have supposed in your question--oh, no, it is a form of engagement in itself, and what you refer to as 'pride' and 'boasting' is nothing of the kind. It is the enthusiastic sharing of those emotions and joys that we as a community share in common. The ancient art of magic is important to us. It is vital and real. It fills us with wonder and awe, and we revel in the mystery of it. We revel in it through reading about it, talking about it, hearing about it, collecting it, performing it, and yes even sometimes teaching it. If you wish to join us in our passion, there isn't a soul reading this that would object in the slightest. If, however, you wish to sneer and deride, you should not be at all surprised if this community reacts in the way it has. You are, after all, attacking something quite precious to us. My comments, I hope, are taken in the respectful and intellectual vein in which your own question was posed. Best, BC
Phasmologist
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Dr. Fellshadow New user Hollywood, CA 15 Posts |
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On Mar 15, 2015, Godzilla wrote: Thank you Godzilla, thank you for being the first and only one to answer my question thus far! As I have stated above, this is certainly not my first time here in "Spooky," in fact I was originally a member of The Magic Café's "Spooky" section way back in 1998. None of my original posts from back then even exist anymore, lol... I am no newcomer to this forum or Bizarre Magick, and have met and talked in person with many of the "Spooky" regulars here. They just don't know it. |
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Dr. Fellshadow New user Hollywood, CA 15 Posts |
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On Mar 15, 2015, MatCult wrote: The great MatCult ladies and gentlemen, not only a practitioner of the "Spooky" but also a poet! Bravo, bravo! Still waiting on the answer to my initial question, yet perhaps your verbal misdirection is a quiet "No"? Would you care to tell me a little about your self, the spirit of reciprocity goes a long way with me. Nlongi |
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5150 Posts |
Nlongi, your original post may have confused us - I know it confused me - as it aggressively targeted collectors, and then circled around to perpetuating the art of magic through sharing our knowledge of the craft with the next generation of practitioners. Both topics are completely unique, and yet also symbiotic, hence the confusion. Your thoughts are probably worthy of a separate post, which could serve as a pointed discussion verses muddying the waters as they are doing here. But, we are where we are...
I can't do much better than what Prof BC so eloquently and accurately stated, but from the collectors' standpoint, I feel I can elaborate. Without calling you out as being a "troll," I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your questions are legitimate. First, I like to think that magic is one of the deeper art forms. That is, it has many levels of expression, and many supporting arts that can be necessary to perpetuate its evolution. Like theater or film, which can rely heavily on multiple artists and disciplines...magic too, can rely on more than one creative field to nurture its growth. Film and theater may rely on writers, actors, directors, designers, composers...not to mention prop makers, musicians, stage hands, editors...the list goes on and on, hence the rolling credits at the end of any film. Many of these people consider themselves artists and take what they do very seriously. What they do, and what they produce can be, art. Like other deep art forms, magic may rely on multiple creative contributors beyond magicians...effect creators, prop designers, photographers, directors, editors...the list too, can go on, especially with larger productions. What is produced in this venue of entertainment can also be...hopefully...seen as art. So, I collect magic props, and perform a little bit here and there for family and friends. And when I do, I make sure it is done with confidence in the performance and a belief in the effect. I am always true to my roots in maintaining confidentiality and secrecy. In short, I may not "do" magic, but I love magic. But in collecting, I go back to my roots of building magic as a youth in my father's workshop since I couldn't afford to go to our local magic shop to purchase them. I learned literally through blood, sweat, and tears, to respect the art of prop building, and the discipline that goes into creating fine magic effects. Today, if I can perpetuate that art by supporting contemporary builders whom I respect by purchasing their props...you can bet I will. Humans, by nature and nurture, are makers. We make things. First, out of necessity. And then out of desire. Of course we came into this world with nothing and will die with nothing. Most of us learned that simple premise early on in life. But because we are makers...that making of things...is what feeds and develops our existence. And that brings me to addressing your second point. No. I have done nothing recently regarding "passing on the craft" to younger generations. Except that as a collector, I am fulfilling my unique role in preserving these small parts of magic history that I hope will continue to be, part of the "whole" that is the magic gestalt. I will never be a great magician. But if I can collect props that I love, that support an art that I love, and hope that they will keep something that I love alive. That will be magic.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Since Mary's product were brought up, most make excellent displays.
I own the following items and they look great: 'Finger of Ferarius', 'The Ghost Pendant', 'Ritual of the Talisman', 'The Lips of Ann Bodenham', 'Pin-Tagram Plus', 'The Pyramid of Ptahotep', 'The Vase of Modus Heiroglyphica', 'The Portrait of Lydia Marsh', 'Abigail's Beads', 'The Elfin Chest'. Tony |
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Dr. Fellshadow New user Hollywood, CA 15 Posts |
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On Mar 15, 2015, PROF BC wrote: Ah PROF. BC, just the intellectual rebuttal I was hoping for! Much appreciation for your very insightful perspectives and opinions (and for respecting mine, err sort of?). As a fellow Professor, I can appreciate your academic/philosophical reasoning. If I may clarify in my defense many points here: 1. As I have stated several times now and which seems to have been overlooked(?), my intention was not to come off as abrasive, uppity or in a negative tone. If I cannot raise a challenging question, then perhaps I should stick to my sanctum of trusted and open-minded initiates. I assure you my tone has been misunderstood here. That is the way that I speak as I detailed above, I don't feel I should have to, and will NOT alter it, or my original post (and behind the scenes others agree). 2. Often times we interpret things based on the outlook and condition of our own ego (obviously). What may sound "abrasive" or "uppity" to one may seem genuine, concerned and honest to another. Forgive me, for I am used to dealing with folks who like to be challenged so they become better at what they do and who they are. That having been said...AGAIN I will assert, these message and forum boards do not exactly lend themselves to perfect and clear communication. Should I be concerned about accidentally offending others every time I post, by the way that I speak/write? Am I to resist from speaking my mind for fear that the emotion-charged and sensitive types may/will misinterpret my meaning and tone and message by taking it personally? I think not... I hope not. Lol. Let's be real honest here, ego are known to and do run rampant around these parts (forums). 3. Respectfully, despite your seeming assumption (that I was somehow striving to cast my opinion as the absolute truth or voice of reason over everyone in this forum), I was not. Again I was just merely asserting my rightful opinion and asking some curious questions. Thank you for reminding me of what moveable strength and power I have over others (have my fellow bizarrists gone soft and sensitive on me? It's a turn-off, really it is). I am finding this whole "me having to explain myself over and over again" a little silly and annoying, lol. Keep up with me folks, it's not that hard to follow. I gave my comments and my opinions, and I asked some honest questions, if you or anyone else for that matter should disagree, you are entitled that position (obviously). Just don't "sneer and deride" me for having mine. Yes, disagree...fine, yet then either move on, or submit an intellectual rebuttal (as you have so graciously demonstrated for us PROF. BC). Silence is better than useless chatter. 4. You bring up some great points, about the importance of archiving and historic/archeological preservation, I too am in the field of professional archival as well. We just might have more in common than you previously thought? [Insert evil laugh here]. That being stated, I personally wouldn't put Tenyo products on that scale of important items to collect/archive/preserve, yet if that is one's thing, than hey, it's their dime, their time and their physical space! More power to them! My point was more along the lines of the dangers of crass materialism and consumption addiction (and if we are to be completely honest here, magicians and especially bizarrists are known for our hoarding, aren't we, yes we are). Yes it is a matter of personal opinion and choice, you are spot on PROF. For instance, your examples of historic things which you mentioned you were glad were preserved are of no value to me personally (Dante, Shakespeare, etc.), no offence! That is to say, if they were burned in a house fire I wouldn't consider it a loss., yet that is just me. Now the same applies to you, my filed archive of declassified government documents might not be all that important to you to preserve. I get your point. As you are aware, we all have our own priorities when it comes to things we deem important/imperative to preserve. I am all for the preservation of things which benefit the succeeding generations (and if one's argument is that in their opinion Tenyo and Magic Wagon products and/or $1,000 bizarre magick shelf items and vampiric bookends do just that (help/aid the succeeding generations in some way) then we might have to just agree to disagree, yet more power to them. It's all relative. Moreover, it has been another observance of mine, that (in my personal opinion and experiences) we tend to often hide behind our props as "bizarrists" and have often lost sight of the meaning of simplicity (and the benefit of being streamline). Again (as I feel I must now give this preface before everything I say so as not to "offend" the sensitive ones in here) this is just my personal opinion and critique/criticism, everyone has the obvious right to disagree. 5. My other original point (which also seems to have been missed?) alludes to challenging each other and motivating each other to do and look at things in different ways...ways that may even be uncomfortable for us. Yes "Dr. StrangeMagick" and "Big Billy the Vampyre" own $500 shrunken head props which makes noise and move on their own, yet can the same desired outcome be done without all the flamboyant, expensive, holy, showpieces? Yes, it can! No again if that is your thing than fine, my point is that we as bizarrists shouldn't be defined solely by our props and collections or Magick Rooms, rather it should be by our service, the reactions we receive, the memories we leave in the minds of others. If one needs a $500 prop to do that then, in my opinion we are fooling ourselves. Yet it has been my personal experience that many of us—magicians, mentalists, bizarrists— are in comfortable captivity. Held comfortably captive by our fancy expensive centerpiece/coffee-table props and long drawn out boring performances (many of which I have seen are performed to yawning half-awake lay audiences, yet performed to them as if the audience were filled with magicians, i.e. over-proving, overkilling, emphasis on prop instead of on participant satisfaction/reaction, etc. Which begs me to ask another honest question, (don't shoot me now, it is just a question) how many of us are professionals in here? I might be better off spending less time bantering with hobbyists and halloween aficionados (Not referring to you PROF, so keep your hat on, hehe). There is a big difference in my opinion between an arcane-collecting-$1000-aged-prop-owning-hobbyist and a real world paid bizarre/mental/strange/geek/haunted/seance magick performer. In my experience, one thing that I have observed which has never quite been fully accepted by many of our (bizarre) community-at-large, and that is tolerance for those who bring a differing perspective, which is ironic since bizarre magick was built of "being different". Ponder that for a moment... 6. Not sure I understand your interesting parallel example PROF.: "You might just as well argue that we should not eat or breathe because such activity fails to prolong life indefinitely." These things do prolong life, it is the prolonged fasting and absence of these things which make death eminent (and quickly so). Just not sure where you were going with this example? 7. Personally, and again this is my opinion, I see it as my duty to "pass on the craft" to the younger generations, both out of respect to those who passed it to me, and in wanting to keep this art form/profession/genre/deathstyle, err lifestyle alive! I have been deeply saddened at how many performers put interested youth through the gauntlet, shun them, ignore them, chastise them, belittle them, only to then throw them back to the card-sharks just because they were new, unaware and not "initiated." It is a syndrome, it is a sickness among us, which I think stems from the fear that the younger ones might become better than us? Many of us suffer from agism. 8. In my defense, I find it interesting and somewhat ironic how many people have reached out out to me via PM to express anonymous solidarity with me and my original post. I have at this current time received no less than 5 PMs in agreement, and in support of my challenging comments and questions, by 5 individuals whose names I shall keep redacted from this record out of my sincere respect to and for them. Thank you for those courageous one who have silently offered their support and praises of my challenging yet much needed questions. I am not alone in my observations... Not that it matters to the naysayers. 10. Like I have repeated several times above, I am not new to this community nor have I just wondered in here via mere curiosity PROF... If you have been on the bizarre scene for a while then chances are we have met, or at least spoken on the phone. Yet strangely you do not look familiar to me? I am no stranger to this community, I need not be accepted here as you so graciously offer, for I was here at the very beginning of this "Spooky" forum. I can name names, place dates and times, I can place places... Been there done that. 11. PROF B.C. Please do not warn me of sneering and deriding, and not warn the others... Your closing comments sound a little to me like an ultimatum, and like you are striving to single me out as if I am a disrupter here, and being threatened with the digital gallows...if I ask honest and real questions. I feel I didn't deserve the territorial, edgy, emotion-charged "smart" remarks I received from my original post... How about some balance, by extending the warning to ALL others as well, and not singling me out. Interestingly though, it feels like there is a convenient bias present here: that some are granted privilege passes, while other are easily drawn and quartered. Just because you may not know who I am doesn't mean I am unknown, lol. To be perfectly honest with you (and the others), I have always been turned off by many of my fellow bizarrist's xenophobia (in thought and action)... I have been in the bizarrist's "good old boy" clubs, yet found it distasteful and disturbing how quickly one gets thrown under the bus, for merely questioning and critiquing. Another thing which I have challenged in the past, yet was led to the gallows for. I still see nothing in my original post that can be considered sneering or deriding... Quizitive yes, challenging yes, thought-provoking yes, but not sneering or deriding. I see honest questions in my initial post, which apparently scare or bother people who are threatened by critical thinking and opinions which directly differ from their own. The truth don't hurt none but the guilty. This phenomenon has been documented, and made manifest via the responses to my initial humble and honest questions. Is this tactic good for business PROF.? If I were a dealer I might want to be a little more even in my addresses to bizarre forum members, for unjustly warning customers can be bad for business... Things for our community to consider working on overcoming: - Xenophobia - Agism - Individualism - Starting and/or provoking quibbles, squabbles and petty arguments - Prop/Trinket Worship - Showboating At the risk of beating a dead horse, and repeating myself once again to the weary minded, this is my final post on this topic. Respectfully, Nlongi Yilwa |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Nlongi Yilwa,
Interesting as your thoughts may be, they are off topic in this thread. Ed's post, and the purpose of this thread, is to provide suggestions for additions to his collection and display. Anything other thsn that is off topic. If you wish to discuss the points you bring up, please start your own thread, so as not to disrupt the purpose of this one. Tony |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Some people collect art to appreciate and preserve while others put it under the bed in a box or on a shelf in a spare room to collect dust. Not all collectors are created equal or do it for reasons we agree, so we shouldn't make blanket statements on either sides. Remember Beanie Babies? Man that guy made a fortune on what I think are worthless stuffed animals. If you like to collect roosters or pigs, who are we to say you are wrong if it makes you happy (as long as you don't have a problem as a spendaholic then it's just sad).
I say collectors spend,spend,spend and keep these fine people in business, PLEASE and thank you! http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/ http://www.alchemymoon.com/ http://www.lebanoncircle.co.uk/ http://www.geminiartifacts.com/ http://grindshow.com/ http://www.blackhart.co.uk/page53.html To be fair also check out these other links at the top of the forum they would also appreciate your business. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=14
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts |
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On Mar 15, 2015, Nlongi Yilwa wrote: Your initial question was what? It got a little lost in the pages of extraneous guff you typed. Was it this: What is the sense in collecting things? My answer to that is: I'm not 100% sure. I'm not a collector myself, but I assume that for those that do it is a source of pleasure. And perhaps that is reason enough. Or perhaps this is the initial question you're referring to: How many are actively "passing on the craft" to the younger generations? Answer: I don't know. I have no plans currently to teach anybody in the younger generations. But then to some, I still am the younger generation. Hope that clears things up a bit. While we're asking one another "challenging questions", here's one for you: If several people find your tone abrasive and the rest of the community manages to communicate successfully through "forum boards" - should you not perhaps entertain the possibility that it is you that is out of step and not the rest of the world? And finally, I love the super mysterious "you know me but I'm keeping my name hidden" Secret Squirrel bit - very nice. It might entertain you to know I once stood next to you at a urinal. You broke wind, but I didn't inhale. If you saw me in the street you would not recognise me, but I was there when they invented the word "bizarre". It was a Tuesday and we had eggs afterwards to celebrate. And last night I pressed my nose against your bedroom window while you slept.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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Malakim Loyal user 206 Posts |
Since I am quite new to magic, I qualify as the young generation.
The people HERE have been very helpful at all times. In this Forum under this section I have found a very helpful bunch of nice people. The spooky section is a very rare Forum section with almost no flaming. @Nlongi Yilwa I do not see any help in your holier-than-thou narcissistic rantings. Thank YOU for bringing empty flamewars to the spooky section. I hope your self esteem gets the boosting it seems to need. |
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zoic New user UK 67 Posts |
All pocket friendly and great looking-
Haunted doll 3 no evil also... Suicide hotel Room 17 Haunted key (I do a spooky hotel themed bit!) |
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The Curator V.I.P. Beware Vampire, I have 3909 Posts |
I should start collecting stuff...
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Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts |
Hi my names Declan and I'm a propoholic!
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
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Merlinsmagic Inner circle Daly City, CA 1606 Posts |
He / she with the most toys wins....?! This original thread question went from this to that in 0 flat......
Curator you really should start collecting just stuff, you've got enough things For me I love "pocket" or small stuff that has had an awesome impact for me from Outlaw, Gemini Artifacts, Alchemy Moon & Lebanon Magic Circle just t name a couple.Love the reactions I get from my Haunted Doll ! |
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Lo Pan Special user Haven't slept in weeks - but I now have 769 Posts |
Dave Powells Pocket Haunted Timber
The Carlyle Key Charles Pecor's Seance by Thaumysta Magic Company I have a little antique bottle that I balance my Haunted Timber on and it looks much spookier then the deck of cards or mini booze bottle they suggest - it works great though - completely reliable - Im sure you all could come up with some other bizarre items to balance it on for a spooky effect. I love the fact that Ed Carlyle will take the time to personally teach you his key technique via skype - buy a key and take him up on it - it was a great experience for me and my young son - priceless Pecors Seance is just a great pocket effect and a wonderful piece of history - I love to use it from time to time |
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signal2noise Regular user 136 Posts |
Nice set of bizarre.
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