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matthewjohnson Loyal user Canada 239 Posts |
Just saw this as I don't visit the Café often these days.
Am I missing something or is this a joke?!? This is Melt but with a phone. Same principal exactly and ad copy is even blatant enough to say method can be done with a credit card or a business card. How did this get out? And also appeared on TV? Interestingly enough I was asked last year by someone on Troy's team (through Facebook) if I minded Melt being done on his show. I said no. I suspended by old Facebook account and started a new one. May just have to reopen it and see who it was that asked me. Then this guy and World Magic Shop have the guts to release this! and this is why I have decided to become somewhat a recluse in magic. MJ |
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LankyHobo Veteran user 325 Posts |
It's released through Mystique Factory not World Magic Shop.
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matthewjohnson Loyal user Canada 239 Posts |
Hi LankyHobo,
My apologies to World Magic Shop, not sure where I got that. Update. I went in to my old Facebook account and found something interesting. The person I was contacted by in December was Ollie Mealing from the UK. It was December 2013. I have all the records and pics of the Facebook conversation but essentially Ollie said he was working on a new channel 4 show with a magician called Troy. He said they liked Melt and wanted to use it in the show. I asked for credit and they said the show producers would not give it. I insisted on seeing the show when it aired and asked Ollie to send me a link (which I never got). Fast forward to now and Daniel Bryan is releasing "Thru" and is crediting it as being used on Troy's show. Now both Ollie and Daniel are from the UK. I don't know if they know each other and/or whether they both worked on the show but it seems very coincidental don't you think that I was contacted about using my effect on the exact same show!!! I have messaged both Daniel (Facebook) and Ollie (email) and as of yet (it's early days) have not had a reply. It appears that Daniel is also a member/customer of Penguin Magic as we checked the records. He is certainly aware of my effect. Cheers, MJ |
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MR Effecto Inner circle 2836 Posts |
Matthew, Melt is one I always carry around. Great effect. This sucks its the same. I saw it and said to myself; this is melt. I hope this can be worked out. But I wont be buying this effect.
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LankyHobo Veteran user 325 Posts |
Hi Matt,
Melt is awesome. Hope things can be worked out between everyone. |
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nattefrost Special user 703 Posts |
I thought the same thing when I saw this. I said to myself..."wow, this looks exactly like Melt, but with a phone and a credit card". But with all due respect isn't Melt an updated version of the "Bill Slasher" effect or "Power Lunch" with the toothpick through the bill? I apologize if I am wrong here.
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nattefrost Special user 703 Posts |
Sorry, Power Lunch is a toothpick through business card.
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matthewjohnson Loyal user Canada 239 Posts |
Thanks everyone. I am glad to hear you enjoy Melt and Melt 2.0. Years went into these effects. As a matter of fact I first released this effect under the title "Card Through Bill" through Hocus-Pocus many many years ago. The effect (while in it's infancy then) used the same method but had nowhere near the maturity in both handling and structure as it does now. It's been a much longer ride with Melt than people realize
The inspiration for Melt was based on an effect called "Blade Runner" by Al Cohen using a table knife. I saw this prop when I was about 15 years old at my local magic shop back in Sheffield, England. That is where my journey with Melt/Card Through Bill started, more than 25 years ago. Melt is quite different from Blade Runner not only in props used, but the gimmick used and the handling and structure of the routine. Melt 2.0 with a freely chosen, signed card takes the plot and turns it on it's head again because now the card could be freely chosen and signed before the Melt and handed back. "Thru" immediately from the ad picture looks the same as Melt because of the fold of the bill and the structure of the phone passing through the bill. While not a card the phone still occupies the same shape as the card and Melts through the card in the same way. The entry and exit of the phone before the moment of magic in my opinion has not been thought through as well! Anyone that owns Melt can see the same method is being employed and the look and feel of the routine and the vertical Melt is the same. That my friends is Melt but with a cell phone! I have heard back from Daniel Bryan who claims this to be an independent creation and he claims to have had no prior knowledge of Melt. As I know that Daniel is a customer of Penguin and as my effect is the number one effect on the homepage (and has been for a considerable amount of time) I would say it's pretty hard to miss, wouldn't you! Daniel suggests that he knew about Melt however before Thru was released so he apparently credits me and Melt on the DVD. Again before Thru was released! I was not contacted and neither was Penguin for our thoughts or blessings on this based on the effects looking identical. I have not heard back from Ollie Mealing regarding him asking me to use this on Troy's TV show back in 2013. I have also heard back from Mystique Factory who claim that this is an improvement on Melt. Nothing could be further from the truth! And this my friends is what magic has come to although, to be fair, it's been going through this for quite some time! MJ |
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magic1178 Loyal user 215 Posts |
I saw Mr Johnson perform this for me in Vancouver about 15 years ago,
Bought it immediately! I empathize with you Mr Johnson, That sucks, But it strengthens my need to support the ORIGINAL creators even more. Much magic love! Derek
Derek Johnston
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nattefrost Special user 703 Posts |
So is that where Masuda's "The Blade" came from? I am assuming it is.
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts |
Matt should shoot a cheap video showing how to do the phone version and add it to the Melt video, then no one would bother to pay the extra $25 to get Thru. Melt was fantastic, as have all the other releases I've purchased with with Matthew Johnsons name attached.
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dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 11, 2015, matthewjohnson wrote: I have blade runner, in fact it is sat in my drawer at home and not been used for a long time. It is pretty cool stuff though! .... The down side to it is how often does one come across the same type of knife in situe? Ok to play devils advocate (please don't shoot me down) .... 1) Did you ask Al Cohen if you could take his idea and expand on it and come up with Melt? 2) (For a more realistic question)- did you refer to Blade Runner in the video for melt and credit it? I genuinely don't know. 3) I've never seen Melt advertised on Penguin. (One of the three lines above is a blatant lie.) How do you know know Daniel Bryan is a Penguin customer? I wish you luck in this Mr Johnson but I predict an unfair / un-satisfactory resolution. |
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts |
There's a difference between expanding on something (in real life asking is not necessary, people alter and expand on products all the time), and reselling the exact same idea with no changes. I don't have Thru do I have no idea which is the case here.
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TuneHV Inner circle New York 2063 Posts |
The links to Thru on Penguin now all redirect to Melt.... interesting development
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James927 Regular user Nor Cal 164 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 12, 2015, TuneHV wrote: Hmmm...sounds like sorcery! Actually, it seems that Thru may be turning into what amounts to as free advertisement for Melt. And to me, that feels like poetic justice. |
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matthewjohnson Loyal user Canada 239 Posts |
Thanks everyone.
As far as Masudas "The Blade" I don't know where the inspiration came from or when it was released. I looked it up and found a video of the performance, looks great! I can see the method employed but really cool to do it with a box cutter. It may be independent or drawing inspiration from Al Cohen, I have no idea. I can tell you that the gimmick/prop is different but the same if that makes any sense. Masudas is a great use of the every day object it uses however! Dave, thanks for your questions and I would like to answer them. I did not ask Al Cohen but let's be clear on something. Al's effect was the inspiration but that is where the similarities end. While the penetration of the bill at the single moment of penetration is similar the effect, routine, handling and object used is different. In my teen years I spent every Saturday for 8 hours in my local magic shop in Sheffield where I was fortunate enough to have access to a great deal of magic. This is where I encountered "Blade Runner". Because "Blade Runner" was the inspiration for my effect but because "Melt" represents a significant difference to "Blade Runner" I released "Melt". I did give credit to both Al Cohen and his effect "Blade Runner" in the download for "Melt". Again, I first released this effect to the market about 15 years ago under the title "Card Through Bill" where I also credited "Blade Runner" as the inspiration for an effect that became quite different after a significant amount of work over many years! Now on the flip side, if you take a look at the demo video for "Thru" and for my effect "Melt" you will see that they are identical except for the handling in "Thru" not being as good, ie: the penetration is the same but the lead in from the object being outside the bill to through the bill does not make as much sense (again, in my opinion) because the moment has no logical path to moment of effect! The vertical penetration and the overall look of the effect is exactly and I mean EXACTLY the same. This is something that I created for this effect. While Daniel uses a phone and I use a card is irrelevant because the method and overall performance is the same! It had also been suggested many times on forums and on the more than 200 great reviews of melt that other objects such as business cards and credit cards can be used with this method, this is the same thing that appears in the ad copy for "Thru" The fact that I was asked on FB in 2013 if "Melt" could be used on Troy's show and then the fact that Daniel advertises that "Thru" was used on Troy's show is weird! As to how I know that Daniel is a customer of Penguin. I film for Penguin, Penguin has a database of it's customers and what they have purchased! Daniel certainly purchased effects while "Melt" was on the top of the first page where it's stayed ever since! If you are a customer of Penguin you CANNOT miss it! Go take a look. As for me creating a video with the phone. While I appreciate you are trying to help That would A) be copying and B) Not necessary as if you have "Melt" you have ALL you need to know. Thanks to everyone who continues to support creators of effects. "Melt" certainly represents a significant part of my life and it's an effect I am very proud of in the structure of the effect, the psychology behind the effect and the complete routine provided in both "Melt" and "Melt 2.0". MJ |
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Ceierry Inner circle Europe 1578 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 11, 2015, Slackerking wrote: I agree on everything you said! All Matthew Johnsons products was fantastic! And I would love a Melt with the phone version too, explained in video. EDIT: Ah okok, didn't saw the Matt answer, sorry
Author of 10S Star Sign Divination - olivier.ceierry@gmail.com for a digital copy.
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kellebotond New user Hungary 86 Posts |
I have seen the Thru DVD, I do not have Melt, but I have seen the trailers. So here is my opinion on the subject:
Both are great tricks. But I think the trick using a phone and a bill is better because seems more impromptu nowdays. Also it is true that there is a different kind of effect at the beginning so in Thru you have a penetration type of effect when you put the gimmick in place but I do not see this as a problem. It looks cool. So I think we can say that there are differences in the handling of the 2 tricks. The method is not new. There was a trick with a knife mentioned here couple of times earlier using the same method ages ago ("Blade Runner" by Al Cohen). I have also seen a marketed trick in the 90's called 'Can you cut?' by Magic Studio 2000 from the Czeh republic using an utility knife where the handling did not use any additional paper just the knife and a note and the method is the same as in Thru and Melt. Also there was a trick in the 90's or maybe even before called Bill Slasher where a playing card penetrated a bill and the method was the same as in Melt and Thru (the difference: the gimmick was not paralelly cut to the playing card but in a 45 degree angle and there was a plastic sleeve to make it angle proof). I am not saying that Melt was not original or anything like that. It was a modified version and a nice development of earlier existing effects. But I also think that that is also true for Thru. It was a very good idea to try the effect with a thicker object like a phone. I would never have thought knowing the previous effects that it would work with an object like that. So I do see additional value here. If we would judge releases the way some of you suggest, it would harm the development of our art. (You could say for example that Cell is just the John Kennedy Mystery Box with a phone). Full disclosure: Being from the same country I know both guys at Mystique Factory. But I am not involved in any of their projects, so I do not have any interest financially or any other way.
Bûvészmûsor Rendelés
http://www.buveszmusor.hu/ |
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