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RobertBloor
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Quote:
On 2004-02-20 21:04, Frankm6 wrote:
Anybody know how to make copper cups tarnish faster? Thanks.

You don't.
You allow them to patina over time.

Must have patience. Do blow your loads too soon.

Robert Bloor
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
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hkwiles
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Howard Wiles
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Bill,
Thanks. I'll see how I get on with the book first.
Just another question, with all due respect to all the other posters,
Does it really matter what cups you have gone for once you have decided (based on what has been said on here) that:

Aluminum are too light, so get Copper or Brass.

Get a cup that will nest 3 1" balls without rocking.

A wider mouth enables you to use larger loads.

I know you "get what you pay for."

But aren't the expensive cups over doing it a bit other than self-indulgence.

We would all like a Rolex, and I know it’s superb piece of instrumentation BUT, at the end of the day it only tells the time and nearly as accurately as a £20 Quartz crystal one!!!

Howard
Magic.J.Manuel
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Since "The Cup and Balls" is often a showpiece routine you may want to invest in a decent looking set. Very inexpensive cups tend to be made from thin metal, and will dent easily. And the ring heard when your wand taps it sounds like a clunk. If you don't want to spend any money then use every day tumblers or yogurt cups. If you want to look like a pro use professional quality props and professionally made balls with a very nice wand and close up pad. Of course some "pros" may use paper cups just to prove that the cups are not gimmicked, or be doing strolling magic without a full case of props and a table.
Nothing would get done at all, if man waited so long that no one could find fault with it.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2004-02-21 13:03, hkwiles wrote:
Bill,
Thanks. I'll see how I get on with the book first.
Just another question, with all due respect to all the other posters,
Does it really matter what cups you have gone for once you have decided (based on what has been said on here) that:

Aluminum are too light, so get Copper or Brass.

I think that's a pretty good idea. I prefer copper to aluminum, just for that reason. Brass is good, too.

Quote:
Get a cup that will nest 3 1" balls without rocking.

I'm not hooked on that. A set of Bertram/Miller/Phoenix cups won't do that, and they are perfectly useable. But most good sets will. The Penguin Copper Cups generally will. They actually come with a smaller ball. One-inch balls are not really a necessity.

Quote:
A wider mouth enables you to use larger loads.

I really like jumbo cups. But there are some really good smaller or normal sized sets. The main thing is to get something that feels good to you.

The Bazar de Magia cups are perfectly fine. Remember that you have to have someplace to put the big loads. If you aren't working off a servante or out of a pouch, you will be limited by what you can conceal in your pockets.

Quote:
I know you "get what you pay for."

But aren't the expensive cups over doing it a bit other than self-indulgence.

We would all like a Rolex, and I know it’s superb piece of instrumentation BUT, at the end of the day it only tells the time and nearly as accurately as a £20 Quartz crystal one!!!

Expensive cups may be self-indulgent, but not if you use them. The magicpitch.com family of cups are really durable cups made for professional street workers. They will hold up very well under strenuous use. If you don't believe that, watch what Gazzo does to his.

A Rolex is not just for telling time -- a Rolex also gets you a certain kind of respect that you don't get with a £20 Quartz crystal one.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
ChrisG
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Quote:
Anybody know how to make copper cups tarnish faster? Thanks

I have done Civil War reenacting for about 15 years. Brass and copper can be "tarnished" through the use of urine. It is common to use to get a good patina on brass buttons. I am not recommending this just letting you know an option.
ChrisG
"Consensus is the negation of Leadership"

M. Thatcher
hkwiles
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Howard Wiles
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Bill,
Touché!!! As regards my Rolex comment.
Thanks once more for your added comments. I was under the impression that use of 1" balls may be preferable if possible and I am not yet familiar with the "loads" requirements although I have seen references to "saddle bags" for holding various kinds of larger objects.

Seems I have much more to learn than I envisaged.

Howard
kerpa
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Michael Miller
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Can anyone recommend a good DVD on cups and balls? How is Carl Andrews' DVD?
kerpa
a/k/a Mike Miller
Chicago area
Michael Miller
(Michael Merlin: original family --and stage-- name)
Pete Biro
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Not a DVD, but the Stevens tape on cups and balls shows you a great variety of routines and styles.

http://www.stevensmagic.com/
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
what
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The Stevens tape is also available on DVD. I have it and it is very good. It shows 4 different performances of the Cups and Balls.
If you're just starting the Cups and Balls, then do yourself a favor and learn the one in Mark Wilson’s book. It will get you performing in no time, and then you can modify the routine to your hearts content.
Magic is fun!!!
videoman
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Quote:
On 2004-02-21 13:03, hkwiles wrote:

We would all like a Rolex, and I know it’s superb piece of instrumentation BUT, at the end of the day it only tells the time and nearly as accurately as a £20 Quartz crystal one!!!

Howard

Not to get too off topic but actually Rolex's are notorious for keeping time very poorly. They cannot compete with the quartz and electronic watches of today when it comes to timekeeping. However, they do hold their value (and increase in value in many cases) and bring a certain status and prestige to those that own them (at least in those circles whose members can appreciate them).

Likewise, only a few people buy a nice set of cups and balls such as the Sherwoods strictly because they are well balanced and handle well. Most buy them for the status, prestige, and collect-ability of the cups. Those are not bad reasons. To each their own.

Best,
Bill
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2004-02-23 16:17, videoman wrote:

Not to get too off topic but actually Rolex's are notorious for keeping time very poorly. They cannot compete with the quartz and electronic watches of today when it comes to timekeeping. However, they do hold their value (and increase in value in many cases) and bring a certain status and prestige to those that own them (at least in those circles whose members can appreciate them).

Interestingly enough, these time problems are the ones that Rolex of America is most often called upon to take care of. They are usually solved without even taking a trip to the jeweler, much less sending them to Rolex of America. Quite often they are solved by simply winding the watches correctly, a skill that some of us have forgotten. Remember, most Rolexes are chronographs and have to pass a very stringent series of time-keeping tests before leaving the factory.

I had problems with mine before I made the one simple call to the headquarters, which straightened the problem out.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
KirkG
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I just have someone wind mine for me. I can't be bothered. Smile

Kirk G
Pete Biro
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I buy Rolex watches in Mexico by the dozen and when one crashes I throw it away. Smile
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Palmer
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You can change the batteries, but the batteries cost more than the watches!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pete Biro
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I always get embarrassed going into a jewelry store for batteries for a Knock Off Rolex.

Had a street guy try to sell me one for $100... but when I didn't buy he chased me down the street and finally said, "OK Ten Bucks!"

Still said, “No thanks.”
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
shane_delon
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I have to comment on all of the people who are somewhat downing the use of coffee cups, or mugs.

Anyone who watched John Carney on the Magician's Favorite Magicians special several years ago knows that you can do a pretty good routine with a dollar bill (or two), a lemon, a butter knife, and a mug. You may not have all of the options that you have with a set of cups and balls, but if you take away the bill to lemon ending you have a very real-world useable routine, and one that isn't only used by Carney, but by the professionals that worked at the famed Illusions in Indianapolis. I've seen similar routines in there numerous times.

Point is, if you can steal a cup and butter knife from the restaurant you are working in to practice with then you only have to carry around the extra bill and a final load to have a great routine. Lot's less to carry around while trying to do table-hopping.
Dave V
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Quote:
On 2004-02-25 17:53, shane_delon wrote:
I have to comment on all of the people who are somewhat downing the use of coffee cups, or mugs.

Huh? Are we reading the same forum? Several people on page one mentioned coffee cups, as well as Pepsi cups, Ice Cream cups and other things. The question was "What nice 'Cups and Balls' sets are available at a reasonable price?" not "What can I use besides standard cups?" Two entirely different questions altogether.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Bill Palmer
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What Mage of the Meadows said.

Actually, I would go farther than that. I would strongly suggest that shane_delon read all of the many posts and threads on cups and balls that have been on this forum during the past couple of months. Then he would have some real information upon which to base an opinion.

Personally, I think anyone who would STEAL props from a restaurant he was working in, in order to practice a Cup and Ball routine for the customers would not remain a working pro at that establishment very long. But a performer, who asked the management if he could borrow or even purchase a mug and a butter knife, would find that the management would probably bend over backwards to provide the necessary to do the work.

I probably would not do a cup and ball routine at table for restaurant customers. All of the material I do in restaurant settings is geared towards keeping my props off the table as much as possible. I know that when I am eating, I don't particularly like to have foreign objects in my grazing area, and I think a lot of other people are like that. And I would NEVER do a cup and ball routine with a coffee mug a customer was going to drink from or had been drinking from. It's rude.

But if I did a cup and ball routine at table, I wouldn't do a pretty good (sic) routine. I would do an excellent one. I can't see John Carney doing anything less.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
shane_delon
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I based my comments off of the following
posts.

Quote:
And don't get me started on using coffee
cups. Sheesh! That is like just performing
the end of Hamlet, rather than the whole
play. This also goes to those who say, I
don't care about the early phases, anything
will do, as the audience only remembers the
loads anyway. Well, perhaps the way you
perform it.

This is not to say that some can't do a
passable job with those props. But they could do a more respectful job with the correct props. Just do a different trick if you don't have the props with you. Do the coin under the hat/breadbasket. Malini killed with this.

It has a big load which is all they remember anyway (sic).


Quote:
There is never a "need" to "invest" in
expensive cups. These are "wants" and a
amateur or a professional all have wants.
Now, a good quality cup, IS necessary for
maximum growth.

On the subject of mugs, I don't want to
offend anyone one who uses these props, but
give it some thought. Have you ever seen a
mug routine that is as good as the best
"standard" cup routines? I think no. They are all shortened or lesser versions. Does that mean no one will ever think of one? No, absolutely not! So by all means continue to explore and develop and you may create the one that gets me to say, "I got to get me some mugs!"

You must remember we are discussing a classic of magic. Classics are such because they have stood the test of time. The plot is clear, the magic strong. Can they be improved? Of course, but beware, a lot of time and thinking has already taken place, so your first thought may not be something that hasn't already been tried and discarded. If it doesn't really make the trick more amazing and more strong, just different, is it an improvement?


Quote:
Howard, Congratulations! At least get some cups that don't have handles on them, so they are a bit easier to work with.


Quote:
By the way, I am of the belief that a good
set of cups should be purchased at some point in time by everyone. They don't have to be the Sherwood cups but at least get a good set like Johnson's, Von Dokum. Magic
Makers/penguin etc. Then after that you can
have a good over view of the cups and pick
which ones you want to use.


For one thing, not everyone should need to
purchase a good set of cups if they already
have a great "cup and ball" type of routine
with a coffee cup. For another thing, it isn't like seeing the end of Hamlet without seeing the whole play, it's just not the same cups and balls routine as that particular user does. That doesn't
lessen the quality of the routine that it's
used in.

After reading the above posts I was just left with the impression that these people thought that a cup and ball routine with a coffee mug was somehow inferior to a routine with a "proper" set of cups and balls.

As far as the following post:

Quote:
I think that's a rather harsh assessment.
Nobody has downplayed using coffee cups, or
anything else for that matter. You won't find a more "open minded" bunch anywhere else. Or working pros for that matter.

Considering the tone of your post, I'd
suggest reading "How to Win Friends and
Influence People" and try us again when
you've finished.


Actually that book sounds like a great book
for any magician to read... after all isn't
that part of what we try to do. However, the fact that you appear to be attacking my
character with this comment could lead one to believe that you haven't read it yourself.

But I haven't read it so I can't comment.

What Bill Palmer said.

Quote:
Actually, I would go farther than that. I
would strongly suggest that shane_delon read all of the many posts and threads on cups and balls that have been on this forum during the past couple of months. Then he would have some real information upon which to base an opinion.

Personally, I think anyone who would STEAL
props from a restaurant he was working in, in order to practice a Cup and Ball routine for the customers would not remain a working pro at that establishment very long. But a performer who asked the management if he could borrow or even purchase a mug and a butter knife, would find that the management would probably
bend over backwards to provide the necessary to do the work.

I probably would not do a cup and ball
routine at table for restaurant customers.
All of the material I do in restaurant
settings is geared towards keeping my props
off the table as much as possible. I know
that when I am eating, I don't particularly
like to have foreign objects in my grazing
area, and I think a lot of other people are
like that. And I would NEVER do a cup and
ball routine with a coffee mug a customer was going to drink from or had been drinking from. It's rude.

But if I did a cup and ball routine at table, I wouldn't do a pretty good (sic) routine. I would do an excellent one. I can't see John Carney doing anything less.


I have read many of the cups and balls posts and was not basing my comment on them, but yet on this thread, so those don't apply. I feel that you have given a lot of great information on this thread as well as many others on the subject of cups and balls and I'm grateful for it.

And I wouldn't steal props from a restaurant, nor do I suggest anyone else to. I wished that to be a bit tongue and cheek, but didn't come across that way, so you are also correct about this. I would ask the manager if you could have one to practice an effect with it so that you could perform it in the restaurant, sort of a, "grab the cup from the restaurant you are working in" comment, but actually don't just grab one and take off, ask the manager first.

You may not do a cup and ball routine at a
table, but where I work I carry around a
close-up mat as there seems to be plenty of
table real-estate, unlike O-Charly's or
somewhere. Whether you choose to do a cup
and ball routine at a table or not is fine,
and whether I choose to or not is fine so I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a
suggestion to not use the table or why that
comment was throne in to your reply? It
seems to me it sort of depends on the venue.

Obviously if you're lucky enough to work in a "magic" restaurant like magic moments or
somewhere, you'll have plenty of room on the table. Unfortunately for the rest of us we have to make a judgment call, but this could be a totally different topic.

I also wouldn't take a cup that someone was
going to use. If there is a table of set for 4 with only 3 people sitting at it or if there is a coffee cup sitting in front of a six year old I think it is normally safe to borrow the extra one, as it will most likely not be used.

And the routine that Carney did was
excellent, and I'm sure you would do an
excellent one too as you seem to have a ton
of interest in the cups and balls. Again,
thanks for correcting my poor choice of
wording.

Cheers,

sd
Pete Biro
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Whew!

Oh, just opened a package from who has to be the KING of wrapping things well. Mr. Sherwood.

A set of his "smooth" copper cups arrived in fine order today.

Wow! If you really want a lifetime set of cups, in copper, these are the ones. I bet you could drop them off a building and not harm them.

Not huge ala Gazzo, but more in the Paul Fox(R) traditional size, these cups are made of a very heavy-walled copper... great weight and balance, and a very pleasing design. Little subtle differences in the design add a lot of class, they don't look like Thermos lids.

Medium priced, you can't go wrong with these "smoothies" (save the engraved ones for your Command Performances!
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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