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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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KingStardog
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You’re a lucky guy Pete, and the thermos lids crack me up!!

As far as coffee cups go, well I even break the ones I drink coffee out of from time to time, so for Cup and Balls they might last throughout one or two sets.

Been through a several sets of real cups now and settled on the Phoenix cups strictly because they take the beating.

When you perform magic, people have some general ideas about the types of props and things you should possess. Although you should be able to use lots of things you find lying around, if you are getting paid on a regular basis you should be investing in high quality long lasting props and equipment.

When you take your car to the shop, you expect to see a giant sized toolbox in the mechanic's work bay. Even though he may be able to fix your car with a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench, you expect him to have all those things as part of his chosen career.

If you pulled into the same shop and there was an empty bay, an empty workbench and a screwdriver and wrench lying on the bench, even though he fixed your car you probably wouldn't go back.

I don't see where hiring a magician is any different. Even though the guy entertained with a knife and coffee cup and did a great job, you would not be as likely to book him again as you would the guy who entertains just as good, and shows up with a great set of cups.

Am I making sense with this?

Ok Pete, drop the $ bomb and tell us how much for the smoothies.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
shane_delon
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I disagree. I think you're paying for the entertainment more than the props. It doesn't matter if Carrot top makes something out of a big piece of plastic or high quality silk. As long as he's funny and entertaining, people will higher him.

I'd much rather see Bob Sheets entertain with a set of el cheapo green and yellow plastic set of shells then see myself do a routine with a set of gold shells, and I dare say I wouldn't even try to follow him no matter how great my props work. He's funny and he's a great entertainer.

Just because it may be your personality to be a highly polished high class looking entertainer doesn't mean the same for all of us. Michael Ammar wouldn't look right without good quality nice looking props, as there is a sense of elegance when he performs. Does that make him a better magician than Bob Sheets because he dresses in a nice suit or tux while Bob Sheets may wear a T-Shirt covered by a button-up with palm trees on it, I don't think so. He just has a different personality.

I'd find it hard to determine that the quality of the performer is based off of how expensive and perfect looking his props are.

sd

Posted: Feb 26, 2004 5:38pm
-----------------------------------------------------------
I realize that here:

Quote:
You would not be as likely to book him again as you would the guy who entertains just as good, and shows up with a great set of cups.


You say, "who entertains just as good." I think that if both entertainers are of the same quality the end result may be that the person who connects with spectators or management the most may end up being called back again, and not based off of what his props look like. I think it all comes down to who they like the most and who has the best fit personality-wise not prop-wise.
Frankm6
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I have to agree with Shane Delon. This talk of what a performer should have is really silly. Slydini raised magic to the highest level with a piece of cigarette paper. I was lucky enough to spend some quality time with Frank Garcia when I was growing up and saw him kill with a buck pack of cards that bus boy ran out to get from the corner store. It’s all about making magic. Either you’re doing that for the audience or you’re not. I do a trick of Max Maven’s that has no props- is that trick any less then something that uses $1200 cups? Give me the $1200 Sherwood cups and give Max nothing and he’s still going to kick my butt and send me home crying in a performance competition.
Part of the problem here is I believe the topic of what $50 cups to buy has run it’s course (I’m sure ‘I love MAGIC’ has bought them by now) A more general discussion on Cups and Balls stuff is what we all want.
Peace,
Frank

PS
Don’t get me wrong, I would kill for set of Sherwood cups.
hkwiles
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Howard Wiles
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I think that whatever your line of business/profession,
be it musician, artist, sportsman you can bet your bottom dollar most will move up a "rung" with the quality of their kit/equipment/instrument the better/more proficient they get in their trade/craft.
Take footballers for instance. Can you tell me of any who don't have expensive boots? And take a look at the Sunday soccer teams; nearly to a man they have boots worn by the pro's. I wonder why?

Howard
Pete Biro
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It all depends on what YOU want. I have seen Bob Read KILL with his cups and balls routine using a mug, a paper cup and a magician's cup.

I watched Vernon fascinate and baffle with his beautifully engraved Persian cups.

Myself? I have had excellent results with my Paul Fox, Rings N Things, Riser, Sherwood, Galli Galli, Owen, Tayade and my own Hindu cups==as well as using borrowed tea cups in a chinese restaurant.

Why?

The routines are basically the same, but I "personally" like to collect AND USE nice quality cups.

I not only have them in a display case, but I enjoy grabbing different cups sets just about every time I do the routine.
:kermit:
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
shane_delon
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I'm afraid that I'm quickly falling victim to becoming a cup collector myself. Thus far I only have Pheonix, Johnson, and I just ordered the Penguin cups this week. I've always loved the way the Paul Fox cups looked but haven't found them available since I began looking unless they were way out of my price range.

What is it about cups that make them so addictive to people who collect magic?

Must be something because they've stood the test of time longer than any other prop known to magicians.
Dave V
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Quote:
On 2004-02-26 15:30, Pete Biro wrote:
Whew!

...A set of his [Sherwood's]"smooth" copper cups arrived in fine order today. ...

Oh great! Now I'm suffering from Cup envy! I've been "window shopping" for something nicer than the Bertram/Miller cups you turned me on to many years ago on MAGIC!

According to Jim Riser's photos chances are I have the "copy" cups instead as they just don't fit as well as I expected and the rims aren't rolled perfectly. I was perfectly happy with them until you guys (Cafe) started talking up all these shiny new toys and I keep finding myself browsing back to the Sherwood site over and over again.

Trouble is, my first wife didn't seem to understand the necessity for this kind of investment. Of course now I have a second wife, but I really don't want to have to start looking for wife number three, so for now I'll just have to look (and keep a box of tissues handy to clean the drool off my keyboard).
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Frankm6
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Quote:
Oh great! Now I'm suffering from Cup envy!

Me too. If I could find some really good copper cups with a chop built in I would go for them in a second. The Café, clearly is not healthy for relationships. Also, Pete this might be a bad question, like asking a parent to pick their favorite child, but what is your favorite set and why?
KirkG
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Sorry, I have been away from this thread for a while. To respond to the query of, "Are coffee cup cups and ball routines inferior?", I would leave the answer to that question to each of you to make for yourself.

I, myself, have never seen a coffee cup routine that is as good or better that the routines I have seen with standard cups. Coffee cup routines have been sub standard.

Of course, I have seen poor routines with standard cups too. Don't get me wrong, having set of great cups does not equate to a great routine.

So with all due respect to the greats who have performed the routine with coffee cups, none of them have been as good as your work with standard cups. I have seen Vernon, Carney, Ammar, and Copperfield to name a few. That was my point.

I think you could probably do almost as good a chop cup routine with a coffee cup, but that is another matter altogether.

Kirk G
Bill Palmer
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I'm sure this has been mentioned. One of the funniest C&B routines ever is Bob Read's "Penultimate Cups and Balls." It uses three mismatched cups. One is a regular cup from a C&B set, one is a coffee cup and the other a paper cup. It is an excellent routine and, as I said, very funny.

But it is really a routine for magicians. It would still make a layman laugh, though. However, it's not my cup of chop.

I have to add this. My Sherwood Copper Smoothies arrived in today's mail. They are every bit as nice as the silver engraved ones, just not as fancy.

I have posted a review of them here.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......09&2
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pete Biro
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FrankM6: My favorite cups and why?

Depends on what I am doing.

Paul Fox cups for the basic routine BECAUSE they really feel right, but the main reason they were a gift from Danny Dew.

Second choice: Riser Mini Cups -- because they fit in my pocket, altho I have a set of Ring N Things mini's that are slightly smaller, yet still have the quality, and I MIGHT try to use them to see how they handle in real performance.

BUT THEN... the most fun and entertaining cups are the Indian, or Hindu type cups. I was using the ones I sell until I found a fantastic set of old beat up heavy brass ones that look 1,000 years old, engravings, crud, etc. but OH DO THEY RING and OH DO THEY HANDLE.

The reason I like the Hindu cups is because of the routine and presentation style I use. I use an antique Opium Pipe for a wand and I do it as in "Impression" of a Jadoowalla (Indian street performer) and I talk in FAKE Hindu (double talk).

The cups/routine I WOULD LIKE TO LEARN?

The Johnny Paul routine with sponge balls. I just haven't had the time to learn the SEQUENCES yet. (So many routines, so little time). If I was working behind a bar--this would be the only routine I would consider.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
peter teagle
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Does anyone know where I can get white crocheted balls? All my searches have failed!

peter
"technique is science.
the application of technique is art."


peter teagle
Vincent
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Try Empire Magic.

They have what you are looking for in regular and combo sets.

http://www.EmpireMagic.com

Take Care,

Vincent Smile Smile Smile
bishthemagish
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My favorite cups have been a stainless steel set from rings and things that vanished during a lecture magic demo from behind the counter at my fathers store.

To replace the set was a copper set that Magic Inc. put out first called the Ross Bertram set and later the Charlie Miller set.

Before that I used a set for years like Jim Ryan had that were the Ireland set that Magic Inc. made.

I also have a set that I have used in stand up magic that Paul Rosini marketed that I got from John Shirley. This you load the fruit at the end and they work like lota bowls.

The cups fill with liquid at the end of the effect.

Cups and ball are great. But it is not the set it is the routine and the entertainer/entertainment value that is important. The magic is in the magician and we choose the set that best suits our needs...

But I don't suggest button quail as a final load.

Best ahead,

Glenn Bishop
http://www.mrhypnotist.org
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
peter teagle
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Thanks Vincent, perfect!!

peter
"technique is science.
the application of technique is art."


peter teagle
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