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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Doubt to Clarify: Unexpanded vs Expanded? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Presarian
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Hey Guys, I was just wondering. I don't really do coin magic but was thinking to get into it sooner or later. I am dumbfounded by this... and I know probably some others are too and maybe some have asked but, what is the difference between and unexpanded S**** and an expanded s****?

And how does it affect workings of it and all?

Sorry to come off as ignorant but I guess you guys would be able to help me (:! Thanks!
BanzaiMagic
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Sent you a PM.

As to workings, some folks swear by unexpanded sets (also called a Deans set), but a well made expanded set will serve you just as well IMO.

The issue of expanded/unexpanded is only really an issue with custom coin sets anyway, such as Schoolcraft or Lassen.

The people that like Deans sets seem to think that they look more normal, but I really like my Lassen Walker expanded set.

Regards,

Alan
inigmntoya
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The difference is with an expanded model you can use just about any other coins (of the same type) with it.
With unexpanded, it's a custom fit and ONLY the coins that come with the set will fit.
Ray Haining
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One of the reasons, I think, some prefer unexpanded shell sets is the re-milled edges of the cut-down coins make palming, especially classic palming, easier.
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse
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I use a lassen expanded she'll myself
bowers
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I have both,but I prefer the expanded set more.
So many more applacations can be used with it.
Todd
pepka
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Uh, I'm the one on the right.
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I normally use a Schoolcraft Dean's Barber set. Back up or casual use unexpanded set from Lassen that is great and a REAL bargain!
CarpetShark
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I've never quite understood why one would invest in an unexpanded set, when as previously mentioned, an expanded coin is more 'useful'. Ray, I've been corresponding with a couple of well known gaff makers on getting a Canadian silver dollar made into an Ex [ .... anyway they tell me they can remill any coins I send, for a small fee.

So, what is the appeal of a Dean's set ?
Ray Haining
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CarpetShark, I guess if you like coins with a re-milled edge, then buying an unexpanded shell together with the cut-down, re-milled coins is easier than buying an expanded shell and then going to a gaff maker and have regular coins re-milled.

I have both, but use the expanded version, so I'm not really sure what the appeal of the Dean's set is. I was just guessing that the re-milled coins were the reason.
CarpetShark
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Fair 'nuff Ray. I too prefer re-milled coins as I tend to do a lot of edge work which is challenging enough without having smooth-edged coins slipping and sliding !

Pepka, thanks for the tip of the Lassen set, I'm heading over to check it out right now Smile
tbaer
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I like the unexpanded because the face of the coin is more sharp looking than the expanded, the expanded isn't as crisp, it has a slight distortion. Also when the expanded shell is lying next to a regular coin, you can see a slight difference in size, with the unexpanded, you can't tell the difference.

But the advantage of the expanded shell is you only need to purchase 1 shell and it will fit over most matching regular coins. With the unexpanded, you have to purchase 1 shell, plus you will have to purchase how many remilled matching coins you will be using.
Robert Houdin 78
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The unexpanded Deans set is absolutly wonderful!
Bendy
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An expanded shell is a hollowed-out coin, leaving just the sides and face of the coin. It is then put through a machining process that EXPANDS the circumference of the coin, (now a "shell"), so that the shell fits over most other coins of the same denomination. The coverage and fit varies, depending on your coin selection.
An un-expanded shell is a hollowed-out coin, leaving just the sides and face of the coin. The edges are usually re-milled to make palming better and to match the coins that are fitted to it. There is no other machining necessary, so there is no distortion on the coin that is usually, (though in most cases, minimally), seen in expanded coins. Regular coins cannot fit inside an un-expanded shell. Coins for the un-expanded shells must be cut down along their outside edges, then re-milled so that they nest into the un-expanded shell. They have to be precision-cut and won't work in other sets. The benefits to the un-expanded sets is that the coins and shell match up really well, (usually near perfect and unnoticeable to an untrained eye), the re-milled edges make them very easy to palm and the fit and coverage of the shell is usually much better than what you could hope for in an un-expanded shell.
Worth the extra money...but the drawback being that you have to keep the coins and shell together. If you damage or lose one of the coins in the set, you'd have to have another one custom-made for that set. (Most of the custom gaff makers provide the measurements of the sets you purchase in case you need to have extras or replacements made in the future.)
taller8
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"Also when the expanded shell is lying next to a regular coin, you can see a slight difference in size, with the unexpanded, you can't tell the difference."


An unexpanded shell is still going to be a bit larger because the other coins are shaved down.

any shell will always look a bit larger, because it is larger. Smile
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Aug 23, 2015, Bendy wrote:
An expanded shell is a hollowed-out coin, leaving just the sides and face of the coin. It is then put through a machining process that EXPANDS the circumference of the coin, (now a "shell"), so that the shell fits over most other coins of the same denomination.


David Roth has explained that the coins are expanded BEFORE being hollowed out. It seems that would be much easier than trying to expand one afterwards.

The Roth video is fairly old, maybe there's a newer process? What source says the shell is expanded after the coin is hollowed out?

The Roth video did say they used to make shells by flaring the edges of the hollowed out coins, but that's not an "expanded" shell.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Doubt to Clarify: Unexpanded vs Expanded? (1 Likes)
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