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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Parents of Child Killed in Boston Marathon Bombing Don’t Want Tsarnaev to Face the Death Penalty (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 22, 2015, acesover wrote:
Tony,

So from what I gather you are saying that a convicted murderer should go to prison as in your example for 15 years then be left out and if he does ok that is fine. however if he commits another murder he should go back to prison. For what another 15 years or is two enough?

I actually have to laugh when you say that the house burglar got "disturbed". Sorry to disturb him while he is working, lol. Smile Then he accidently killed someone while trying to get away. Well after all they did disturb him. Guess they had it coming. Doesn't that sound kind of silly to you? You failed to mention if he was armed at the time or not. However it should not matter. He killed someone while committing a felony.

Then of course you will get those who if the home owner shot and killed the burglar. The home owner would be accused of using excessive force and probably sentenced to life in prison because he violated the burglar's right to rob a home and be safe while doing so.

The possibility of redemption of a felon is probably less than 50% after prison. Repeat offenders ever hear of them? Not good odds in my opinion.

To clarify, no there should not be an automatic release after fifteen years. There should be a parole hearing. We keep the serial killers in for life, and the gang hitmen. As for the burglar who was disturbed, he was unarmed, and had NEVER committed a violent act before. He was a career criminal, but not a violent man.

In my view, a view shared by many, there is hope of redemption for people like him. The greater than 50% recidivism rate you quoted is true for a lot of jurisdictions, but by no means universal. In Ireland and the UK a big effort goes into rehabilitating prisoners, and those who learn a trade and further their education inside reoffend far less than that. Those who do not take advantage of the opportunities are far more likely to reoffend, and all of that is taken into account at parole hearings.

As for reoffending and reactivating the life sentence, it does not require him to kill again to do that. If he broke into a house, or drove drunk, or started a bar fight, that would reactivate the life sentence automatically. Even shoplifting would. So it is not as bonkers as it seems. The fact that the reactivation of life sentences is very rare shows that this policy does work in practical terms.

As for homeowners killing burglars, I am very uncomfortable with the use of deadly force. But of course that is a completely different matter than murder. I think most of us can accept that, even those of us opposed to deadly force.

But it does illustrate my point; you can kill a man and not be an irredeemably evil criminal. I like a legal system that recognises nuances.


I agree with you that not all murderers should receive the same sentence.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
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On Apr 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
An article in the Washington Post this week is relevant to this discussion. 268 cases from the eighties and nineties have been assessed, and the forensic testimony provided by the FBI on hair analysis has been shown to be misleading in 95% of those cases. So people were convicted on the basis of untrue and discredited testimony.

Of those convicted 32 received the death penalty, and 14 are now dead and beyond the appeals process. If I were an American I would find this unacceptable, which is one of the reasons I oppose the death penalty.



Of those 14 that are now dead. Were they executed or did they die in prison of natural causes?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
An article in the Washington Post this week is relevant to this discussion. 268 cases from the eighties and nineties have been assessed, and the forensic testimony provided by the FBI on hair analysis has been shown to be misleading in 95% of those cases. So people were convicted on the basis of untrue and discredited testimony.

Of those convicted 32 received the death penalty, and 14 are now dead and beyond the appeals process. If I were an American I would find this unacceptable, which is one of the reasons I oppose the death penalty.



Of those 14 that are now dead. Were they executed or did they die in prison of natural causes?


According to a table at the end of the Washington Post article, 9 were executed and 5 died while on death row.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
acesover
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While the defendants were not convicted on the sole testimony of the hair analysis it could have helped convict them. Also there is no saying they were innocent. However they are saying that misleading testimony was given.

Those giving false testimony should be punished. If it was truly false. However if given honestly but in such a way as to sound incriminating it is the defense attorney's job to bring this out.

When one hires or uses an expert witness do not expect unbiased testimony. But expect truthful testimony not perjury.

When the procuetor uses their forensic expert witness, expect it to show what the Procesecution wants or they would not have them testify. However as stated earlier it should be the truth even if delivered in a biased way.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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I just lost 15 posts for some reason. This truly is a magical place. Yesterday I still had 880. Check my signature.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Magnus Eisengrim
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On Apr 23, 2015, acesover wrote:
I just lost 15 posts for some reason. This truly is a magical place. Yesterday I still had 880. Check my signature.



Don't go postal on us Smile
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
acesover
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, acesover wrote:
I just lost 15 posts for some reason. This truly is a magical place. Yesterday I still had 880. Check my signature.



Don't go postal on us Smile


I don't really care. But it is annoying as to why it happens. However I had 1,009 at one time. Then they started to disappear. That is why after losing aaround 125 posts I put the amount I had in my signature and the date I had them.

Perhaps someone in high places does not like what I post.
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acesover
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, acesover wrote:
I just lost 15 posts for some reason. This truly is a magical place. Yesterday I still had 880. Check my signature.



Don't go postal on us Smile


I am as sane as this guy... Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 22, 2015, acesover wrote:
Tony,

So from what I gather you are saying that a convicted murderer should go to prison as in your example for 15 years then be left out and if he does ok that is fine. however if he commits another murder he should go back to prison. For what another 15 years or is two enough?

I actually have to laugh when you say that the house burglar got "disturbed". Sorry to disturb him while he is working, lol. Smile Then he accidently killed someone while trying to get away. Well after all they did disturb him. Guess they had it coming. Doesn't that sound kind of silly to you? You failed to mention if he was armed at the time or not. However it should not matter. He killed someone while committing a felony.

Then of course you will get those who if the home owner shot and killed the burglar. The home owner would be accused of using excessive force and probably sentenced to life in prison because he violated the burglar's right to rob a home and be safe while doing so.

The possibility of redemption of a felon is probably less than 50% after prison. Repeat offenders ever hear of them? Not good odds in my opinion.

To clarify, no there should not be an automatic release after fifteen years. There should be a parole hearing. We keep the serial killers in for life, and the gang hitmen. As for the burglar who was disturbed, he was unarmed, and had NEVER committed a violent act before. He was a career criminal, but not a violent man.

In my view, a view shared by many, there is hope of redemption for people like him. The greater than 50% recidivism rate you quoted is true for a lot of jurisdictions, but by no means universal. In Ireland and the UK a big effort goes into rehabilitating prisoners, and those who learn a trade and further their education inside reoffend far less than that. Those who do not take advantage of the opportunities are far more likely to reoffend, and all of that is taken into account at parole hearings.

As for reoffending and reactivating the life sentence, it does not require him to kill again to do that. If he broke into a house, or drove drunk, or started a bar fight, that would reactivate the life sentence automatically. Even shoplifting would. So it is not as bonkers as it seems. The fact that the reactivation of life sentences is very rare shows that this policy does work in practical terms.

As for homeowners killing burglars, I am very uncomfortable with the use of deadly force. But of course that is a completely different matter than murder. I think most of us can accept that, even those of us opposed to deadly force.

But it does illustrate my point; you can kill a man and not be an irredeemably evil criminal. I like a legal system that recognises nuances.



A legal system that recognises nuances is one waiting for major corruption. Certainly you see this right?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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On Apr 23, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
A legal system that recognises nuances is one waiting for major corruption. Certainly you see this right?

Absolutely, Danny. But a system without nuances is a lot worse in my view.
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So you prefer one where some are intentionally treated differently than others? Not me.

It happens enough when it is not encouraged.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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He wants to die and be a martyr, which is exactly why he shouldn't die.

If he lives, he will almost certainly be kept in a "supermax" prison called ADX in Colorado. His life would be a living hell, with only an hour each day out of his cell and little to no exposure to other inmates. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2015/0......ory.html

Sadly, this is exactly why he should live.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Dannydoyle
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Sadly that actually would sort of be torture. Intentionally making his life a living hell and all.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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On Apr 23, 2015, Wizard of Oz wrote:
He wants to die and be a martyr



I guess his legal team didn't get the memo; they're working their butts to off to keep him from getting the death penalty...and I don't see him firing them.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
TonyB2009
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On Apr 23, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
So you prefer one where some are intentionally treated differently than others? Not me.

It happens enough when it is not encouraged.

You already have a system that treats different convicted people differently. That's why there is a separate hearing after conviction to determine if the death penalty should be applied.

The fact that courts are held in public and reported upon provides a certain protection against corruption.
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Same old trite.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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I think it only fair that he be treated fairly and be put in general populatiion and have all the privileges as the other prisoners. Smile Who knows he may even find a boy friend before they do what they do to this sort of person in prison. A win win situation.
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TonyB2009
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On Apr 24, 2015, acesover wrote:
I think it only fair that he be treated fairly and be put in general populatiion and have all the privileges as the other prisoners. Smile Who knows he may even find a boy friend before they do what they do to this sort of person in prison. A win win situation.

Actually it is a myth that prisoners pick on child offenders, terrorists, etc. Prisoners pick on weaker prisoners. The strong prey on the weak. If he walked in with a hard-ass attitude he could do very well in the general prison population. And if he showed any sign of weakness he would be torn apart in a month. And a lot would depend on which groups he would align himself with once inside. You might be disappointed.
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Tony you are absolutely ignorant of the American prison system and you un just showed it. MOST prison gangs won't allow in child touchers and many promote for killing them. Some will kill you for having an opportunity to kill one and not taking it. These are well documented facts.

Often rapists have the same issues. You are way out of your depth talking about these things. I am sorry but it is true. It takes way more than a tough attitude, you have to actually BE tough.

Ever been in a maximum security prison? Talk to anyone who has? Try it some time then offer an opinion.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Some will kill you just for being white actually.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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