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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts 
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On May 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote: Where's gdw when we need him?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote: Everybody still want jails and prisons, (even though so many blacks in there did not commit a crime.) If a black man commits a crime, the law enforcer should go about arresting the suspect the proper manner. They are making it just as worse with brutality. So many are breaking the law and getting away with it. It is a good thing more law enforcers wrong doings are being recorded. All law enforcers should wear cameras. It will make them think twice. That will put out the riots. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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All rioters should wear cameras.
What exactly do you believe the "proper manner? Why should only black men be arrested in this fashion?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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What do we want?...Justice.
When do we want it?...Now. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Define justice.
Don't just chant, don't just parrot words. Use your own mind and go from there.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, Dynamike wrote: I think cameras are a good idea, too. So, do you think the rioters and looters and the black officers who participated in the death of Freddie Gray should receive the criminal consequences of their actions?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On May 1, 2015, Kabbalah wrote: You forgot to mention that she is from a family of police officers. "Lest anyone think she lacks respect for the police, Ms. Mosby took pains to point out on Friday that her mother, father and grandfather were police officers. She has noted that her grandfather was a founding member of the first association of black police officers in Massachusetts."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote: How exactly do you think that is the "justice" he is speaking of?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On May 1, 2015, Kabbalah wrote: AFAIK, they did not charge or arrest him for obstructing / hindering a crime or police officer, so I think your observation is irrelevant.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, balducci wrote: Some of her best friends are police officers, one might say. I don't think pointing out a conflict of interest is a suggestion that she lacks respect for the police.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, balducci wrote: Pretty sure that doesn't follow. Of course they didn't charge him; you don't get charged on the way to the station.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, Dynamike wrote: BTW Mike I appreciate your perspective on this as a black man and I respect your willingness to share an opinion on something that may hit you as a much more personal issue that it is for the rest of us.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote: The way I wrote it you may be right. So drop the word charge from what I wrote. I read it was an illegal arrest. So what does that mean, exactly? If Kabbalah is correct, shouldn't the arrest be legal? Let me put it another way, do you think Kabbalah has a valid point? Or was it pretty much irrelevant? You are the lawyer here, so educate me. 
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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I would think that a false imprisonment charge would be an extremely tough row to hoe. They'd have to show - beyond a reasonable doubt - that they illegally had him in custody. Bear in mind that the threshold for police officers taking a suspect into custody isn't the actual commission of a crime; it's probable cause. So I don't think that charge will fly. Of course, I think they have other things to worry about. :o
In civil cases, there's a doctrine called res ipsa loquitur ("The thing speaks for itself"). It used to be that you had to prove exactly what you were alleging happened. For instance, the doctrine arose from a case in which a guy was walking down the sidewalk, and a barrel from a business fell out of a window and hit him on the head. He sued for negligence. Under the established law at the time, he had to prove specifically what had happened, that is, Were the barrels stacked negligently? Were employees goofing off? etc. In other words, the plaintiff would have been pretty well screwed. But the new doctrine said, basically, we don't have to know exactly WHAT happened to know that there was negligence; the situation couldn't have arisen otherwise. The court laid down a bunch of rules, e.g. the barrel was in the exclusive possession and control of the business' agents, etc., but basically common sense prevailed. That's a civil law doctrine, but I have to say, while still awaiting more facts to come out from this case, it almost sounds like a res ipsa loquitur type of situation. I think the officers are going to have a hard time suggesting that Gray's injuries DIDN'T arise because of their intentional and unjustified actions.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Gray committed no crime, not matter how Kabbalah wishes to spin it and there were no grounds to arrest him.
The police have already stated that they didn't arrest him for "running," but for possession of an illegal switchblade. The knife in his possession, however, was not a switchblade nor was it illegal. Note that Kabbalah, who is clearly acting as an apologist for the police action in this case, has introduced his own interpretation of the law by including running as "obstruction." His point, therefore, is not only irrelevant, it is factually and legally incorrect. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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I agree that Kabbalah is an apologist for the police; however, if the statute is cited correctly, it's obstructing OR HINDERING, and I do think running from officers can reasonably be construed as hindering their investigation. Whether or not he was arrested for it is a separate issue from whether or not he did it. If he'd survived the trip to the station, he might very well have been charged with it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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BTW, for those who don't want to go to law school but have an interest in various aspects of the law (criminal, constitutional, pretty much anything you can think of), I strongly recommend Aspen Publishing's "Examples and Explanations" series. http://www.thelawbookstore.com/legal_boo......anations (available cheaper no doubt from used sources). They're written by different authors, so some are better than others, but by and large, they'll give you a really good understanding of various aspects of the law without all those pesky student loans. They're pretty entertaining, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Randwill Inner circle 1914 Posts
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What were the officers investigating that was hindered?
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote: And if Gray was, in fact, charged with obstruction, the State would have the burden of showing that they had probable cause to pursue him and that the orders they gave him were lawful. Given the facts of this case as they presently appear, it seems unlikely that they would have been able to prove either. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On May 2, 2015, mastermindreader wrote: That's correct, but that's not the issue. That would be the issue if Gray were defending an obstruction charge. Instead, with respect to the officers defending a false imprisonment charge, the prosecution of the officers would have to show - beyond a reasonable doubt - that they DIDN'T have probable cause to detain him.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Posted: May 2, 2015 02:50 pm 
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