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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Stay safe in Baltimore (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tommy
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No I am not joking; Cops murdering people causes trouble, that is self evident.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Starrpower
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Anybody murdering anyone causes trouble. When someone dies while resisting arrest or committing a crime, it's tragic, but is it murder? It's not an easy job when you are charged with looking out for the safety of the general public.
Dannydoyle
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I don't dispute that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Anybody murdering anyone doesn't cause trouble. Cops murdering people causes trouble, that is self evident. Open your eyes and look at the protests over cops murdering people. No one riots over a magician murdering somebody.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
LobowolfXXX
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Or a gang member
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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What they riot about is the abuse of power more or less.

Let them eat cake.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dougini
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The Beautiful State Of Maine
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Quote:
On May 24, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On May 24, 2015, Dougini wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2015, NicholasD wrote:
Just because they have the right to assemble doesn't mean that it's always the wise thing to do. Does anyone really believe that these types of protests do anything to solve the problem?


See, the way I figure it is simple: If you are AT HOME, and NOT out "assembling", it is MOST likely you will NOT be shot dead! Or arrested. Or beat up and put in a van. How many time do I have to say this?

Stay the F- home!

Doug

Well, that is just asking for trouble.

https://www.rutherford.org/publications_......nctioned



Aww, SNAP! Well then. ROFLMAO! Then gather, assemble, PROTEST! This could be the beginning of a nasty civil war...

Doug
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Or a gang member


Well there is sort of that non stop back and forth thing they got going now for decades that is not a riot but far more people get killed during.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 24, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
I'm not sure how you would define "curbing" rights, and I know from past experience if I respond based upon how I perceive it, you are VERY quick to jump down my throat. My only suggestion was that people have a responsibility to express their opinions wisely. There are consequences for bad behavior, and unfortunately the good folks usually have to suffer for the actions of a few bad ones.


What I mean by curbing rights is that if I have the right to assemble, and there is NO riot yet why am I then lumped in with rioters?

Your last sentence is the one I am confused about and in the spirit of not jumping I would like you to simply explain it. Because to me it is sort of as I said taking away guns from law abiding citizenry just because of the actions of a few. I am not so quick to give that a pass. Matter of fact the Constitution is designed to make certain that does not happen.

There are consequences for bad behavior. I am all for that. But if I am simply there under the law 100% why should I suffer any of those?

Now understand I am not saying they were protesting anything I agree with. I am not saying I agree with the protesters. I am only saying that indeed the protesters (Pre riot.) have that right and it should not be curbed. People are allowed to protest things that I may not think need protesting. But to lump them all in the same category for convenience is not good. Eventually what can and can not be protested will be decided by the people being protested.

At least Spain has showed us a pretty good way to avoid protest riots. http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/12/europe/spain-hologram-protest/

But notice WHAT they are protesting exactly.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Starrpower
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I think we are close to the same page in this one, Danny. When I said "unfortunately the good folks usually have to suffer for the actions of a few bad ones" I am not necessarily agreeing that this is good (hence the word "unfortunately"). Historically it has been a natural and expected outcome. One doofus decides to board a plane with explosives in his shoe and millions of folks have to take off their shoes at the airport. Excessive actions tend to be met with excessive responses, and those are not always reasonable.

Assembly can be peaceful and at the same time intimidating. I think some protesters rely on that. If I were a woman with a child in my car and I had to pass through a section of town where protesters were blocking traffic, using abusive and aggressive language, etc. I would feel threatened even though no actual "riot" was taking place. IMO, I think society has a greater responsibility to that woman than it has to the protesters, since the protesters have a variety of other less aggressive/intimidating options available to them.
Dannydoyle
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

See that part about "the right of the people peaceably to assemble"?

I am not sure which amendment it is but I am sure it is in the top...one. My problem as always is with monkeying around with the Bill of Rights. No Constitutional amendment gives her the right to pass down that specific street at that specific time. She has a LOT of alternate routes.

This REALLY is a big deal and I would defend any of the Bill of Rights so stringently. Second amendment, fourth, sixth amendment right to trial and so forth. We get to far afield from this and we really have no Constitution do we?

I am not jumping on you, but explaining my position.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, Starrpower wrote:

Assembly can be peaceful and at the same time intimidating. I think some protesters rely on that. If I were a woman with a child in my car and I had to pass through a section of town where protesters were blocking traffic, using abusive and aggressive language, etc. I would feel threatened even though no actual "riot" was taking place. IMO, I think society has a greater responsibility to that woman than it has to the protesters, since the protesters have a variety of other less aggressive/intimidating options available to them.


Quote:
On May 25, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:

No Constitutional amendment gives her the right to pass down that specific street at that specific time. She has a LOT of alternate routes.



She has the absolute right to travel without impediment from demonstrations.

Although people have a right to assemble, the government also has the responsibility and right to maintain order. The two rights are often at odds, and the right of assembly does not always provide complete freedom to do so. The right of assembly never guarantees freedom of expression under all times and circumstances because the government can limit the time, place, and manner of assembly to protect the public good. Obstruction of traffic, breaches of the peace, and seizure of a public facility are also not covered under the First Amendment clause.

The protesters do not have the right to impede the flow of traffic.

They have a LOT of other places to express their dissatisfaction.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Dannydoyle
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Where is that right in the constitution exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Where is that right in the constitution exactly?


Where is the right to obstruct the flow of traffic in the constitution, exactly?

All municipalities that I am aware of require a permit to parade in the public thoroughfares.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Dannydoyle
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I never made the claim anyone had the right to obstruct anything.

You asserted one right was more important than another. I am curious the place I can find said right.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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People sometimes forget that this nation arose from public protests, petitions of grievances and civil disobedience.
Dannydoyle
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Yea I was slow walking there.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
I never made the claim anyone had the right to obstruct anything.

You asserted one right was more important than another. I am curious the place I can find said right.


Quote:
On May 25, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:

See that part about "the right of the people peaceably to assemble"?

No Constitutional amendment gives her the right to pass down that specific street at that specific time. She has a LOT of alternate routes.



I inferred that you thought the freedom to assemble trumped the free flow of traffic.

I did not assert that one right was more important than another.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Dannydoyle
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I inferred no such thing.

I am still waiting to see where the "right" you assert is so I can read it. Mine is documented in the first amendment. Fairly clearly.

And the right to drive down a specific street at a specific time is where again?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
I inferred no such thing.

I am still waiting to see where the "right" you assert is so I can read it. Mine is documented in the first amendment. Fairly clearly.

And the right to drive down a specific street at a specific time is where again?


Once again, where does the first amendment freedom to assemble clause give anyone the right to block free travel?

If you want to get technical, the commerce clause of the constitution prohibits infringement on any legal movement of any legal thing or any legal person and its mode of transportation. I don't see any restrictions on what street and at what time.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
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