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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Stay safe in Baltimore (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Where did I claim it did?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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Kabbalah-

I don't know what Constitution you're talking about because the Commerce Clause in the US Constitution doesn't say what you claim. It simply gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:[3]

[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Dannydoyle
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Yea Bob that was why I used the exact wording of amendment one.

I didn't think the commerce clause said any such thing either.

I never said anyone can block traffic with a protest.

I am just trying to get clear on what rights are. I do not want ANY of the Bill of Rights eroded in the name of security. Not the 4th or 6th amendments and certainly not the 1st or 2nd. All are equally important All must be defended in their entirety. Even if we may not agree with those who are exercising those rights. As a matter of fact that is probably when it is most important.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 25, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Kabbalah-

I don't know what Constitution you're talking about because the Commerce Clause in the US Constitution doesn't say what you claim. It simply gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce.



And part of that is not transportation?

And, given the broad interpretations of the clause, intrastate free travel is subject to its scope.

Let's look at it from a simple point of view...

Suppose I want to place an order with Amazon today. On my way to work, I am hindered by protesters on the road, thus, not allowing me to get to work.

Now, I can't afford to make my purchase, from an out-of-state vendor, due to loss of income from an unexcused absence secondary to the infringement on my travel.

Let's say I am an investment banker, and the protesters cost my clients and myself thousands of dollars, because I could not engage in my business across state or national boundaries.

Assume demonstrators block a railroad, so my goods cannot leave Maryland.

You get the idea (or not).
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
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Dannydoyle
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My guess is your formal training is not in Constitutional law? Or for that matter any sort of law?

At least in America?

I will let the lawyers answer tgis but my first reaction was to laugh.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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Good thing they got those cops in check in Baltimore!

"Baltimore Gets Bloodier As Arrests Drop Post-Freddie Gray"
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/28......micides/

"Police used to sit on every corner, on the top of the block. These days? They’re nowhere.”"

They would just sit on the corner? It's a good thing they aren't doing THAT anymore!

"“Our officers tell me that when officers pull up, they have 30 to 50 people surrounding them at any time,” Batts said."

Well, it's good the citizens are keeping a closer eye on those racist cops now!

"The mayor said her office is “examining” the relationship between the homicide spike and the dwindling arrest rate."

Relationship? Who cares?!? The important thing is that they aren't falsely arresting so many people! Every improvement comes with a minor cost.

"“Usually, you can’t walk up and down the street drinking or smoking weed. Now, people are everywhere smoking weed, and police just ride by, look at you, and keep going. "

Well, I know there are plenty here who will applaud this improvement!
NicholasD
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The Baltimore prosecutor is an idiot with a big mouth. Seems to me she should have been seeking justice period, not for a thug with record a mile long. As it is she'll probably have to recuse herself and the defense will probably get a change of venue.

As for the cops, why should they do any more than follow their job description when the city officials don't have their backs.

Rudy Guiliani should be mayor. Baltimore would straighten up fast.
mastermindreader
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The problem with that is that the reduction in crime in NYC started with Giuliani's predecessor, David Dinkins. But he DID support abortion rights, gay rights, and gun control, so overall he was a pretty good mayor.

Not suprising to see the "thug" euphemism again. Why not say it like it is? They killed an unarmed black man. His prior record did not strip him of his constitutionally protected right to due process and equal protection under the law.

Does completely ignoring those fundamental principles of justice, which are a cornerstone of our democracy, and calling the prosecutor "an idiot with a big mouth," constitute intelligent legal argument in your considered judgement?
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 29, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:

Not suprising to see the "thug" euphemism again. Why not say it like it is? They killed an unarmed black man.


He had a knife, so he was not "unarmed."

Also, judge and jury much?
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Dougini
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Sorry guys. I ain't PC, so I call it like I see it. A THUG is a THUG. Black, white, brown, yellow...makes no difference. Act like a thug? I'm calling him a thug! Maybe sub-human is a more accurate term.

Doug
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On May 29, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Quote:
On May 29, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:

Not suprising to see the "thug" euphemism again. Why not say it like it is? They killed an unarmed black man.


He had a knife, so he was not "unarmed."

Also, judge and jury much?


He had a legal pocket knife. He did not take it out or brandish it.

No, I'm not judge and jury at all- yet YOU have no problem insinuating that he was illegally armed.
NicholasD
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Calling the prosecutor an idiot with a big mouth may not be an intelligent legal argument, but it gets pretty close to the truth.
And, the word "thug" is not a euphemism, it doesn't describe someone's race, it's a word that accurately describes a criminal.
mastermindreader
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On May 29, 2015, Dougini wrote:
Sorry guys. I ain't PC, so I call it like I see it. A THUG is a THUG. Black, white, brown, yellow...makes no difference. Act like a thug? I'm calling him a thug! Maybe sub-human is a more accurate term.

Doug


Hi Doug,

It has nothing to do with being PC or not and I believe you when you say race doesn't make a difference to you. But that's not the case with everyone. Some only use the word "thug" as a euphemism for the "N" word. Rarely, if ever, do those folks use it in reference to whites. Like those criminals in Texas who shot up Waco. They were predominantly white and were mostly referred to by the romantic epithet "outlaw bikers." Not "thugs."

Because, again, they were mostly white.

But hat really got me angry about Nicholas's post was his utter disregard of the fact that the victim had committed no crime and yet was subjected to brutality of such force that his spine was nearly severed before he died of his massive injuries suffered while in police custody.

And yet you have guys here CONVICTING the deceased of "something, because he was a thug." Not because he did anything at all to deserve what happened to him. Nicholas seems to think that if a "thug" has a past criminal record, he is not entitled to justice.

There's a little document called the US Constitution he might take a look at.

And finally, note that the accused officer are being afforded all of the rights given to criminal defendants our country. They have exercised their right to retain counsel of their choice, and are entitled to a fair and speedy trial before a jury of their peers.

You know, the same rights that were denied to Freddie.
Dougini
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Good point, Bob! Yikes. We don't deal with racism up here in Maine. Unless the French Canadians lose it. Then...I give up. There is almost NO ethnicity here in Augusta. In fact, I don't think there are any JEWISH people either. It is so strange. I grew up in a multicultural environment.

Doug
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On May 29, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On May 29, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
Quote:
On May 29, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:

Not suprising to see the "thug" euphemism again. Why not say it like it is? They killed an unarmed black man.


He had a knife, so he was not "unarmed."

Also, judge and jury much?


He had a legal pocket knife. He did not take it out or brandish it.

No, I'm not judge and jury at all- yet YOU have no problem insinuating that he was illegally armed.


I didn't insinuate anything.

I stated a fact. Gray was armed with a knife. Period.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
NicholasD
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Quote:
On May 29, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On May 29, 2015, Dougini wrote:
Sorry guys. I ain't PC, so I call it like I see it. A THUG is a THUG. Black, white, brown, yellow...makes no difference. Act like a thug? I'm calling him a thug! Maybe sub-human is a more accurate term.

Doug


Hi Doug,

It has nothing to do with being PC or not and I believe you when you say race doesn't make a difference to you. But that's not the case with everyone. Some only use the word "thug" as a euphemism for the "N" word. Rarely, if ever, do those folks use it in reference to whites. Like those criminals in Texas who shot up Waco. They were predominantly white and were mostly referred to by the romantic epithet "outlaw bikers." Not "thugs."

Because, again, they were mostly white.

But hat really got me angry about Nicholas's post was his utter disregard of the fact that the victim had committed no crime and yet was subjected to brutality of such force that his spine was nearly severed before he died of his massive injuries suffered while in police custody.

And yet you have guys here CONVICTING the deceased of "something, because he was a thug." Not because he did anything at all to deserve what happened to him. Nicholas seems to think that if a "thug" has a past criminal record, he is not entitled to justice.

There's a little document called the US Constitution he might take a look at.

And finally, note that the accused officer are being afforded all of the rights given to criminal defendants our country. They have exercised their right to retain counsel of their choice, and are entitled to a fair and speedy trial before a jury of their peers.

You know, the same rights that were denied to Freddie.


If you believe that Freddie's rights were denied, it seems that you've already formed the opinion the officers are guilty.

In a roundabout way, I guess what I've been trying to say is that in a confrontation between police and an armed individual with a criminal record who was running away from the police, a lot of people are giving the benefit of the doubt to the one with the history of criminal activity. Was he resisting arrest? If yes, how strongly? Questions that hopefully will be answered in the trial.
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