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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Well, I'm sure the nameless faceless crowd will be much better off without your negative, controlling, threatened and reductionist input, so thank you.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2015, WillBox wrote: What do you think this is a forum to discuss fake or pretend hypnosis, or magic presented under the fake facade of hypnosis? What an insult to your audience. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
[quote]On May 3, 2015, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On May 3, 2015, WillBox wrote: What do you think this is a forum to discuss fake or pretend hypnosis, or magic presented under the fake facade of hypnosis? What an insult to your audience, and a discredit to those legitimate industry professionals that end up having to deal with the fake beliefs and perceptions this kind of crap creates. |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
No Mindpro, I think its a board to discuss hypnosis as used in performance, whether its part of a stage, street, mentalism, magic or psychological illusion routine. No pseudo-hypnosis but actual hypnosis and waking hypnosis. Is that a new concept to you?
I'm at a loss as to how that could be insulting to anyone. Are you another negative and embittered hypnotist, Mindpro? |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Negative and embittered? By doing actual hypnosis shows and not card tricks and telling lies that makes one embittered? Why not explain to us how many does you do and we can talk seriously?
I gave you a far better way to proceed than a card trick and you glossed it over just to name call because it didn't fit what you wanted. You don't want to discuss you want to be agreed with. Keep doing card tricks and pretending it is hypnosis. Yay.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
No Danny, by purposefully distorting what is written into something else, and doing so with a negative, threatened, arrogant and massively egotistical tone. Honestly, you stage hypnotists don't do your industry any favours with your peurile attempts at dominance and control, claiming the board for your industry and being unfriendly to any discussion about hypnosis. Its really pathetic.
I have absolutely nothing to prove to you. As I already said (sigh, its really getting boring now) I don't do card tricks. Its honestly completely fruitless discussing anything hypnosis related with you. That's the credibility you have. I would much prefer it if you did what you said you would do and "be done". |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Awww so you're not even a hypnotist. You're nothing but another guy trying to pass of other things as hypnosis. It gets old watching this sort of thing.
It is sad. Again I have given a perfectly good way to handle it and all you want to do is flame and argue because it is not a card trick. You don't want to discuss you want to be agreed with. Do you even understand the things I am talking about? If so why not discuss like you supposedly want to? But if yuu don't understand the terms yes it is fruitless for you to discuss. I can appreciate that. If you would actually read what I wrote instead of getting upset you would see a card trick is not the best way to go. You would also figure out that professional hypnotists have been doing this for many decades and it is nothing new.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: Right, and now we have a magician telling professional hypnotists how our industry works. It's pretending magicians that do not do our industry (or theirs) any favors. Yes, when you are an experienced professional working in an industry you love and you have have worked hard for for decades, you do guard and protect the industry you love and that puts food on your family's table, pays the mortgage and pays for your kids education. The last thing you want is someone who hasn't a clue telling your how it is or could be. If you're looking for praise and someone to pretend your magic ideas are clever perhaps try taking them to a magic club meeting. You'll gain all the praise you are seeking. To have some magician come in and try to hold court with someone from an industry they are not even in is an example of the internet and hypnosis products targeted to DJs and magicians at it's best. If this was a live, in person conversation you would be eaten up alive by industry professionals. You came here with this idea looking for feedback from the hypnosis community. You got it. No "distorting what is written into something else, and doing so with a negative, threatened, arrogant and massively egotistical tone", just the input you were looking for. All anyone has said is to take your magic tricks and ideas and keep them in your magic show and leave hypnosis to those in the hypnosis industry. Quite simple. |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: Where are you getting this from Danny? The same place it says this board is for stage hypnotists? One key mistake you made here was to attribute the situation I described, to me. I already said I found it ugly. I agreed with your first response, I just didn't agree with you trying to shut it down. There was more subtlety I wanted to discuss, because I find it interesting. If you don't want to, why are you unable to go elsewhere, or start your own thread with something you do want to discuss? Because all I see you doing is stomping over threads with negativity and distorting things along the way. Its like a compulsion to cock your leg and do your little territorial wee on everything. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Funny again you do nothing but attack. Never address my actual point.
And if you are hypnotist Why would you say "you stage hypnotists don't do your industry any favors" Quite obviously excluding yourself. But keep attacking as it proves my point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Mindpro, I never said I was a magician, and frequently said that I wasn't. You absolutely have distorted things I have said. Read back through and see if you can notice that. By this point, I'm tempted to think you're both trolling as part of something you do for kicks.
Fortunately, hypnosis doesn't belong to you. |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: Because Danny, not all hypnotists are stage hypnotists. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Ah and why is it you keep avoiding what I wrote?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2015, WillBox wrote: My gosh this keeps going from bad to worse. At least there a bit of understanding of a magician thinking about adding magic to something, but if you are claiming you are not a magician and are still thinking of this it becomes even more far-fetched and questionable. What type of hypnotist even thinks of cards? Who thinks of cards that's not a magician? I don't buy it. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Here comes the big reveal... he is a mentalist! LOL
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
Nope, definitely clinical hypnosis, with a past interest in NLP, not from the states and a fan of Derren Brown.
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Mindpro, that's "definitely" some amazing intuition and people reading skills you've developed there. Your self-appointed title of "Mind Pro" has really solidified itself. (Just because you might actually allow that to nourish your fragile ego, I'm being entirely sarcastic). So because I referenced DB's Seance routine, as another example that people might be able to relate to, that means I'm a "fan" does it? I see. "Past interest in NLP... not from the states..." Incredible. Perhaps you can also add to your expert profile that I have watched TV, have access to the internet, and can type.
Mindpro, can I just remind you, because it seems to have slipped you by entirely, that I am firmly against the practice of deceiving to install a belief system. I've had to explain this to Danny too, but it seems you're both inable to actually process information particularly well. It is a mistake to associate the subject of discussion with the person discussing it. Does your condition also lead you to blame the weatherman when it rains? Let me just say that again, because your clunky beliefs and assumptions seem to blind you to information - I am against the practice of deceiving to install a belief system. At no point have I suggested otherwise. That was your own doing - and that, along with assuming I'm a magician, is what I mean by distorting what I have written. Are you able to understand that? Let me just address some more of your assumptions, to see out of sheer fascination what you make of it. "What do you think this is a forum to discuss fake or pretend hypnosis, or magic presented under the fake facade of hypnosis?" No Mindpro, I don't at all. Why would you ask that, are you nuts or something? Do you go around imagining what people think? Do you think that anything outside of stage hypnosis must be fake, pretend or magic? Are you seriously that ignorant? It still doesn't answer why you and Danny have arrogantly tried to claim the board as purely for stage hypnosis. Are you that egotistical that you think stage hypnosis is the only kind of hypnosis? Its clear that you're very against magic. Whilst I don't really care for it either way (although I certainly find the psychological aspects interesting), its hugely hypocritical that you would be so critical and flippant towards magicians whilst claiming that people should be all sensitive and respectful about your own industry. Especially when this is part of The Magic Café. Why belong to a magic forum instead of starting your own industry board elsewhere, so you cantankerous dinosaurs can whinge and moan to each other about your industry elsewhere? What an insult to your audience, and a discredit to those legitimate industry professionals that end up having to deal with the fake beliefs and perceptions this kind of crap creates. By legitimate industry professionals - I hope you're not referring to the likes of you and Danny? I've met two kinds of stage hypnotists. The warm and down-to-earth kind, with an open passion and fascination for hypnosis, and the clunky closed-minded kind who clearly have no respect or empathy for the people they work with. If you belong to the latter, then believe me, you haven't exactly helped with peoples beliefs or perceptions about hypnosis. You came here with this idea looking for feedback from the hypnosis community. You got it. No Mindpro, I didn't come here with an idea, I came here with a disturbing observation about a routine I saw, and wanted to discuss it with other people interested in hypnosis (which therefore doesn't include you). Are you able to understand that? I wasn't looking for feedback, I was looking for discussion. Again, your assumptions/conclusions here are wrong. All anyone has said is to take your magic tricks and ideas and keep them in your magic show and leave hypnosis to those in the hypnosis industry. Quite simple. What? That doesn't even make sense, for too many reasons. I'm not a magician - I wonder if you're able to understand that by now. My post had nothing to do with me, I am against the practice in question, but wanted to discuss it. The interesting point you see, Mindpro, is that this area alludes to self-deception, where far more ugly truths about a practioner can hide. I tried to approach that, but its clearly too subtle (and no-doubt threatening) a topic for you and Danny. but if you are claiming you are not a magician and are still thinking of this it becomes even more far-fetched and questionable. I am not thinking of doing this Mindpro, I was discussing it because I felt it wasn't an ethical thing to do (that was clear in the opening post), and also that there were related self-deceptions. You've actually unwittingly reinforced those suspicions (clue - they relate to ego, control, self-deception to a huge level among a certain sort of practitioners). What type of hypnotist even thinks of cards? Who thinks of cards that's not a magician? I don't buy it. Perhaps you get stuck with definitions like "magician" and "hypnotist" without appreciating that performers may use both. Honestly, you're like a couple of school bullies, trolling away like you do, being all territorial about hypnosis like your ego depended on it. Its really lame. How much better it would be if your little addiction to visiting this board was based on wanting to contribute and share knowledge rather than just stomp about looking for a misplaced sense of dominance. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Blather on and yet still don't address the solution I have you. Attack attack attack.
This is nothing more than nameless faceless trolling.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jesse Lewis Loyal user 227 Posts |
Willbox I will engage you with as much warmth as I possibly can I have met the same reception on occasion and also agreed with them on occasion.
The question I feel is about the mix of magic and hypnosis at heart and it is one thing I refuse to do. I am a purist when it comes to hypnosis and have no real magic background it was hypnosis first for me and magic came to me as my friendships in the community grew. The core of what both arts do is try to instil beliefs but where as most people know magic is a trick many beleive hypnosis is very very real. It is up to them to decide I am there to entertain. For me personally knowing what I know as a full time performing stage hypnotist that makes my living at this stuff I would never do what is stated in the first post which is basically turning a hypno demonstration into a bloody card trick with a resistant volunteer. One thing I state explicetly is that I only work with who I choose to work with... this means that I really do not get into the situation you describe as I am almost always on stage and only perform stage shows. I however can see how it would be useful to have an out but it really is not needed. In my mind if someone does not get hypnotized wooptee doodaa it does not matter the 20 or so others on stage will go down and I prefer to work those kinds of numbers. (I have done really small shows before and it has worked very well too) My question to you is if it makes you feel weird after seeing it how does it really make the audience feel. At almost every show I get some guy that thinks I am a magician and says " can you make my wife dissapear" um no I do hypnosis not magic sir hahaha..... I really think the card trick convincer ending is just an ego thing to look as if a person never fails. Ego has no place in my performance I give them what they need to succeed on stage during the show and if they run with it good for them. Some people are not ready to be stars of the show to them I say go away I will work with this willing subject. Find your hypnotic voice and figure out how you feel about the performance and chances are peoples initial reactions of it are not the truth. Many will go away with that same sour taste when they expected hypnosis but saw a card trick. Jesse
Learn how to build a bigger business at www.showbizsuccesssecrets.com
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Guys, it was quite clear to me on initial reading that WillBox was posing a hypothetical question, not suggesting an actual way of doing things. He was asking what people thought of that hypothetical situation. I never read it that he was advocating it, or that he was a magician.
This has now gone down a totally unproductive route, with animosity on both sides. It might be useful at this point to forget this entirely, and open a fresh thread where the topic is discussed, and egos don't clash. For the record I can see why a beginner might use a crude magic convincer as a confidence boost, why a Derren Brown or Keith Barry would use a convincer because their show is not a strict hypnosis show, and why most of us here would never use a magical convincer because it goes against the whole feel of a stage hypnosis show. But couldn't we try and be mature enough to discuss the topic without scoring points off each other?
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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