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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts 
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Exactly right, Brett. It's way too popular already among magicians and that is slowly taking the "special" quality away from it.
As I keep saying, it's not a generic entertainment form, and it shouldn't be. |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18036 Posts
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So you admit that in todays world there are no "Popular" mentalists ... Household names so to speak. You listed several magicians that most people know and a couple mentalists in the past but NO MENTALISTS in todays world.
A popular musician ... We know their name! A popular sports personality ... We know their name! A popular politician ... We know their name! A popular magician ... We know their name! A popular pro-wrestler .... We know their name! A popular psychic.... We know their name! No one can name a popular mentalist........ they are just no longer popular... It's not a difficult thing to see.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 4191 Posts
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I can indeed name a popular mentalist. Derren Brown is as popular today as Berglas was probably more so. His stage shows sell out very quickly and these are nationwide tours, Being able to sell out in London's west end followed by selling out in every city in the UK. That certainly meets my definition of popular. You are making the mistake of equating fame with popularity, they are not the same thing. Hitler was famous, I'm not sure he was that popular, there are many people that are very popular despite not being famous.
Mark |
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts
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This thread... Wow
xxx
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
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Your list above illustrates why "being popular" has no practical value or meaning. You seem to prefer "recognized by the masses" as some indicator of value or importance.
Please remove "we" from your listing and universal claims. "I" would not recognize most of these folks you have in mind and don't care to. and "I" can name a popular mentalist within any context I choose, so your universal statement falls. "popular" does not indicate any actual value -- just that media says they are popular -- often based on non-verifiable and unscientific surveys. Machu Picchu is the most popular world attraction, but few ever see it -- any theme park has more visitors. "Popular" is relative to many factors -- Awards shows are only ego-centric people giving each other awards and does not indicate and value. The number of people watching a particular TV show only indicates they don't know where the OFF switch is. The number of folks Twittering at 2AM in the morning is a sad cultural statement, not an indication of what most folks prefer. It is difficult to reason why "popular" should be a factor in making a personal decision about anything. Since I do not respect the opinion of a thousand strangers I have never met, who would I give credence to what entertainer they prefer? In fact, whenever I have done the "popular" thing in my life it has turned out wrong. Even the claim of "must see" is often a complete waste of time. If there was a "popular" mentalist by your pretense I would not go to see them, if for no other reason that I don't like crowds and have no money. My mother's advice of, "just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it a good idea," worked 60 years ago and is valid today. In the USA "gun shot" is the most popular form of suicide. Where is the waiting line?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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I've asked to be banned
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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City-data.com has more visitors than Netflix...
Inbox.com has more visitors Tha ups.com Evite.com has 12.5million users every month, more than mtv and best buy... My point is, a lot of people don't know these sites exist, yet at the same time, a lot do...both realities exist depending on your internet choices/wants/needs... Mentalism doesn't have to be classed as mainstream or famous or popular to be considered a success... Besides, in the vaudeville days, as an example, you would have to look at the culture and beliefs at the time, and what else was out there to watch...
I've asked to be banned
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Withnail Special user 974 Posts
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Quote:
On May 15, 2015, Mark_Chandaue wrote: NO, Mark. YOU are missing the POINT. TOTALLY. Derren Brown is NOT KNOWN in America so YOUR POINT OF VIEW is invalid. Sorry - tongue firmly in cheek here ;-) In Fairness to Slim - is it such a bad thing that mentalists aren't as well known as sports stars? As soon as what we do becomes for mass media consumption, we end up in a situation where the secrets we guard become public domain for the 'I want to know' generation. Case in point, some magician slayed in BGT with a £10 store bought trick. It amazed and delighted. It took our papers less than 48 hours to publish the story "Simon Cowell fooled by £10 trick". For me - mentalism can keep cool, keep being underground and sell to those who enjoy and appreciate the art. MHO 
Yet again that oaf has destroyed my day
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Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts
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I don't think Slim King is a popular Jake Blues impersonator.
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MatCult Inner circle 1518 Posts
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This thread is...
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business."
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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I would say that society has changed and that the popularity question isn’t even valid anymore.
Case in point, how may people in the general public can name a living opera singer, a living poet, a contemporary painter, a current chess grand master…? When I was going up, there were household names that filled each of these categories. Pavarotti was my opera singer, Caruso was my parents’. Fischer was our chess player, we also knew Spassky and Karpov, and later Kasparov. Leroy Neiman captivated the country with his paintings. And Robert Frost was my favorite poet. Back then the media was different, the news may have been broadcast by 3 different networks, but it was essentially the same, same stories covered, same people given exposure. Back then there was one late night show that people watched, and guests there, if not famous before their visit, were famous after it. The night show scene changed when Carson went off the air, we then had two competing shows at that time slot, diving the audience, then others joined the fray. Cable stations became more popular and produced their own niche programming targeting certain viewers. Today people just watch and are exposed to what interests them. If they have no interest in opera, they won’t know much about it perhaps other than an opera singer sang the national anthem at the Super bowl in 2014 (Renee Fleming), or that some really young guy is World Chess Champion (24 year old Carlsen) but won’t know his name. But they will know what is going on with Bruce Jenner and his family (especially Kim) or what former pop or movie star is having personal issues and or legal trouble. Each of the areas I mentioned are much larger than magic and mentalism, and the general public has little to no knowledge of what is going on in them. Yes, people who follow those topics will, but the average person probably won’t. Times have changed. Tony |
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts
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Also please don't forget slim - many of us are involved in projects you've probably never heard of. I know I personally make a point to keep 99% of what I do under the radar to the "mentalism" community.
xxx
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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On May 14, 2015, mastermindreader wrote: Wow. The truth in that statement! Just reading the Penny...forum, I am overwhelmed at the sheer number of new effects! And Bob has another book coming out! Bob, LOL! It's your own fault, man! You got your stuff up on Penguin! To tell ya the truth, I understand you want to market yourself, but WOW! After reading Fundamentals and the Dr. Crow book, I realize the BEST of Mentalism is being offered here! I don't like making it too easy. The Billet work alone is a treasure trove! Yeah, I understand Mentalism's popularity among magicians. With stuff from Cassidy, Osterlind, Becker and others, one cannot help be attracted to it. Doug |
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RLFrame Elite user 447 Posts
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In my never humble opinion, mentalism will always be niche art. A better question would be: how could we make it more popular top to bottom? I believe it was in Christian Painter's book - and forgive me if I am not totally spot on with the details as I have lost the book - where he wrote about certain booking agents that were no longer booking mentalists because audiences found them too boring. He also gave an example of a bill divination where magicians in the crowd loved it because they did not know how it was done, but the audience thought it convoluted and boring.
We live in a different world. Back when Houdini was doing his water torture escape, audiences would sit enthralled for minutes on end looking at a covered glass box. Nowadays, if nothing happens in 20 seconds, most of the audience is going to be pecking on a smart phone. Mentalism doesn't have the flash, visual appearances and such of magic. Mentalism is cerebral and personality driven. It is relatively easy to get A mentalism routine to keep people's attention and have their jaws drop at the end. It is much more difficult these days to string a few together, to keep people's attention and carry them along and with building expectation, entertained with mentalism for a period of time, a show, and still wanting more at the end. It doesn't have the car chases, the explosions and the half naked starlets. It requires an audience that is entertained by being engaged and challenged to think about things, but most today find this 'work' and contrary to what they are seeking in entertainment. That's the challenge, it gets more challenging with each generation and I see little on message boards or the literature addressing it/ |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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Quote:
On May 15, 2015, RLFrame wrote:Nowadays, if nothing happens in 20 seconds, most of the audience is going to be pecking on a smart phone. How true! Sometimes ya don't even have to wait that long... Doug |
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MVoss Veteran user Boston, MA 372 Posts
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Quote:
On May 15, 2015, Tony Iacoviello wrote: I think Tony makes an execellent point here. The idea of popular isn't like it used to be. If you're talking about general public awareness, we have so many diverse streams of media now, that there is no longer a single cultural zeitgeist. Youtube video stars can make millions of dollars a year, and eSports (people playing competitive video games) has become a huge thing with massive cash prizes and leagues. To the people who follow these things, they know all the big names and the ins and outs of the leagues, but I can't personally name one of them, and if you stop someone on the street and ask, they might be surprised these leagues even exist. In fact, when I stop and think about what has happened to the variety acts that have achieved that kind of mainstream appeal, I cringe. Do we really want our art to be as recognizable as a Kardashian? That sounds more like the death of art then meaningful growth. |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18036 Posts
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I often compare Mentalism to Professional Wrestling. They both require a certain amount of "Suspending" ... Yet there are dozens of wrestler that are amazingly POPULAR and virtually no mentalists.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18036 Posts
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Quote:
On May 15, 2015, Al Desmond wrote: You are 100% correct!!! Although I've performed over 12,000 times and entertain almost a million people each and every year .. I am not known. I am ranked by Universal Studios as the number one Jake Blues impersonator in the world (Just signed my 13th contract yesterday) ... But that will never make me popular.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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But who are they popular with?
To wrestling fans, yes! And they are seen on TV at least twice a week. WWE is a billion dollar company. (Their promotions also help unaffiliated wresting companies and events.) There are also regional organizations that cross-promote. But then to mentalism fans, there are popular performers. But there is no national exposure like that for wrestling. There is no billion dollar company WME (World Mentalism Entertainment) promoting these people and airing them on TV twice a week or selling stadium shows and huge pay-per-view events. I don't think the analogy fits as far as a business model goes. Although I do get your suspension of disbelief commonality. Tony |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18036 Posts
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Quote:
On May 15, 2015, Tony Iacoviello wrote: But my question is .. WHY NOT?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Posted: May 15, 2015 12:57 am 
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