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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » 3 Fly, like it? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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plink
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A curiosity question, I have heard several people post that they don't particularly like a 3 fly routine. That's fine, we all have our favorites and 'dislikes'. My question is why or what is it that you don't like about 3 fly.
tyler_rabbit
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Are you asking what we like or don't like about it?
Having recently posted about why I don't like it, or coins across in general, I'll be positive here and say what I do like about it..
I like what it did for coin magic overall. It brought the game up off the table and into the realm of "stand-up" magic. It has great "framing."
Also, in original form, it doesn't rely on gaffs- which is cool. It utilizes FP and Ram Subtlety rather than CP and Kaps Subtlety, which is great for me because my CP is less than stellar and imo Ram is a bit more natural and deceptive.. I like that it inspired people to come up with awesome variations like David Gabbay's Sanchez Fly, Daryl's utterly superb handling and many others..
DallasFrank
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The Master,David Roth,said in an interview on the Conjuring Arts website that he does not feel as if 3 fly is magical.He feels as if a closed hand coins across leads to a more magical moment.I tend to agree to a point,some 3 flies are too magical and scream gaff.

Frank
funsway
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From my early days I was mentored that hand positions and movements should be as natural as possible.

In a traditional 3Fly there is little of the coin handling that is "as a lay person might handle."

Some feel that this is part of the appeal of the effect but leans towards surprise and puzzle and "skill demonstration" rather than astonishment and "memory of magic."

The larger problem is asking, "how does this fit into my routine? What comes next, or before?"

But, I like the idea of using three coins instead of four in a transportation effect, and the study of various 3Fly has led to the development of several other effects for me.

..........................

technically, the frequent touching of the hands back and forth bother me, followed by a reverse action on the last coin. This cries "manipulation."

As a good sleight is one that "never happened" I prefer an approach in which the hands never touch and the final action mirrors the previous two under close observation,

but a good story-line can justify anything. Yet, many performers crave the "hey, look at me" power of the effect.

Perhaps it is more a matter of character and setting than "like."


So, it is not a matter of "liking" 3Fly - I just choose to do better things -- preferring "strong magic" over "strong entertainment."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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aqmagish20
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Every time I perform three fly I hear gasps and comments on how much people are amazed. So, not to overthink the magicians view of things, yes, I like it, because people enjoy it and are fooled. I also have a story that I have adapted over several years that fits me very well.
Zephury
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I once thought that three-fly was a poor constructed, lacking in magic, anti climactic, failure of theatrical quality mess..

However, when I seriously got in to coins, I purchased Ponta the Smith's "Sick" DVD. Everything on there seemed outrageously difficult to me. A friend had recommended it to me, saying that he was one of the most skilled coin workers around technical wise and that the dvd was very difficult. My mentality with magic has always been to tackle the hard things first, so that's why I chose to start with that DVD. (I had read Bobo's before the DVD and didn't practice it too extensively).

Watching the performances from the exposed views alone were impressive to me, I couldn't believe the way he was able to manipulate coins. I took some of the most difficult pieces and began to work on them first for sake of just a challenge. I thought his spell-bound routine and single coin vanish appeared to be the most difficult but I quickly gave up on the single coin vanish and didn't have a matching Chinese coin in side to my whole dollar coins so I decided I'd start with three-fly. Not for the sake of performing it, but just because it looked really difficult to me at the time.

I spent a couple of weeks on it and absolutely mastered it. However, I end it differently than he does. Instead of the finger tip muscle pass, I let the coin go in "slow motion" showing it visibly and then saying that I was just kidding, having the coin jump back in to my other hand before finally making the last coin jump. I imagine if you're not familiar with this, I wont make very much sense in this paragraph, but if you do understand this... If anyone knows, I would like the source of who devised that step if anyone could provide it for me please. I reference it quite a bit and would like to give proper credits. I originally got it from Michael Vincent's Routine.

After mastering it, I said what the heck... I did it a few nights table hopping and the reactions were amazing. Though I wasn't totally satisfied. I explored more presentation ideas and finally came up with something I felt made it more of a complete piece. I divised my own way for producing the 3 coins at the start that I believe to be cleaner than any of the other 3-coin productions leading in to a three-fly that I've seen... excluding gaffed productions. Gaffed coin productions for a three-fly are pretty hard to beat. I'd say a laymen would be fooled just as badly though. I ended up working on three-fly extensively for months and now at this point, I can say that I'm really happy with it.

I didn't give it much credit originally but through just using it and seeing what kind of reactions it gets, I've come to appreciate it more and realize that people do enjoy seeing it.

I however rarely use it as a stand-alone effect. I usually open table hopping sets of parlor shows with it. I still don't think three-flies have a very powerful finale... It gives a laugh if presented properly, it provides astonishment but it doesn't quite make people jump out of their seats like my other finale's do. It's still something well worth doing in my opinion.

Here's a link to a video for three-fly that has EXCELLENT presentation. Don't mind the spanish website, the idea of presentation is still there. If you can come up with such a theatrical presentation, it can indeed become a masterpiece like this.

http://www.nontricks.com/desired-coins-28/

I saw it posted here on the Café recently and it really impressed me.
fonda57
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I'm with aqmagish20 on this.

One thing that you see is three fly's without a presentation, other than, "now there are two coins here and one here.."

I think that's what turns magicians off to three fly, and the many variations. Back a few years ago it was the biggest thing going, but now I think a lot of people, magicians, that is, are bored with it.

I see it like anything else--just have fun with it.
I j
PendletonThe3rd
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I was surprised recently when at a party, I bent a coin (QB style), performed Industrial Revelation, Ignition, and some other things which are always a hit.

The crowd liked these well enough and proceeded to ask for more...thing is, I was all out of, what I considered to be, my A-list tricks.

Not one to leave a crowd hanging though, I just grabbed my regular Walkers and did a variation of the 3 fly Eric Jones teaches on Metal. Not really expecting much since I considered this a more B side effect (in my arsenal).

Well, the party crowd went nuts over this one! And here I thought the other stuff I performed was so much stronger. Shows how much I know...
cperkins
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Three Fly (Visible Coins Across), is very strong coin magic.

In his lecture at Penguin Magic, Curtis Kam shares his thoughts on Three Fly. If this routine is part of your repertoire, you'll find his thinking on its presention very instructive, and you might just alter your method a bit - but your presentation will be stronger.

As usual, his observations are insightful and his logic with regard to Three Fly is spot on. It all results in a stronger routine.

cp
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe)
tyler_rabbit
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Interesting. Just might have to check that out. Have heard nothing but good things about Mr. Kam's work.
Have never really gotten a good response from 3 Fly, but suspect it's my presentation/handling.
I learned it in the early 90s from the book when it first came out before I could see others doing it, and so had no way of knowing if I was doing it "right."

Am a big ol' unabashed Ponta fan-boy but don't really care for his handling.
It's always fun watching young Moritz Mueller do it.
.. Guess that's why I don't really do it much: everyone does it!
Jonathan Townsend
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? try doing one direct fingertip transit (or "fly") during your regular coins across and see how it plays for your audiences.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
harris
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Although I used to do a regular 3 fly, I find I more use Jonathan Townsend's idea above.

or I go the other extreme and use 3 fly ideas as taught by Curtis Kam in Bejeing or The Goblet.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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Michael Rubinstein
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I never liked three fly. The moves most people use are flawed due to a discrepancy, the coins bounce back and forth so fast there is no time to digest the effect, and the bounce back that most people use is very confusing. My own three fly effect is a combination of an open and closed hand coins across, which in my opinion has no confusing points, prsents a magical moment for each arrival, uses moves not found in other routines, and best, you end clean. It is called Retro Fly, and can be found on the Penguin online lecture, NYCMS dvd series, etc. That is not saying that there exist other routines that are valid, but not the ones I have seen.
Available at dealers EVERYWHERE - RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! Already called a Modern Classic!!
And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used in the book.
Mb217
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I like it and have explored the trick thoroughly enough, and usually always reach the same conclusion that Chris Kenner's ungaffed initial version was about the best way to do it. It does all happen pretty quickly but also have some really magical moments to it. There are several versions out there, gaffed and ungaffed…I even have a couple, "My Fly," "Grandpa's Coins," and recently, "FlySki."

"FlySki" is the one I do most times if I do it at all...My aim was to simplify the play, eliminate the jumpback move, and deliver a more streamline effect with different moves to it. I believe I did that but to each his own when it comes to 3 Fly. Smile I have seen it using an X-[ that looks really good with great handling, and not difficult to get down. I've done it, I like it - Pretty slick!

I think if you can keep this overly-popular trick simple, you can have some fun with it. Smile I have had the good and perhaps not-so-good fortune at times to over-complicate it and to simplify it. It took all that to come up with some things worthwhile…Most times it always does. Smile
*Check out my latest: The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


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Ferran Rizo
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I do not completely like the 3 fly effect, trying to see it as a spectator is not so magical, as other coin effect. This is because the effect happen so quick and spectators cannot assimilate every fly. Also lack the cleanest of other effects where the coins travel hand to hand. So I studied it but never do it because I really do not like it I preferred perform other effects...
jerdunn
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In my experience, what makes Three Fly fly or not is the cleanliness of the "shows" at various points during the routine.

I started with the extra-coin methods. I didn't like being stuck with "paddle hands" concealing the extra coin, but figured the routine still worked for laymen.

Then a pro magician friend, who's not a Three Fly fan, challenged me to do the routine for a couple sitting in the bar at the Magic Castle and then outright ask if they had any explanation. One of them floated the idea of a secret extra coin I was hiding somehow. Point taken.

As soon as Bob Kohler's version appeared, I bought it and loved it. I could show my hands openly after various phases, making it clear that there were just three coins in use (haha). It's still one of my favorite routines, especially for a group too large to easily see a close-up version done with closed hands (e.g., David Roth's Shell Coins Across) or open hands held low (Homer Liwag).

Cheers,
Jerry
Magical Dimensions
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U3F kicks azz.........


Ray
Jonathan Townsend
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If you're curious... you can do "3fly" where you lower the coins behind your fingers or close your hands between coin transits.
You can push the coins back up to fingertip display after the magic.
See how the routine works without the burden of selling an instantaneous transit and the attention management challenges.
The basic effect is that the coins are traveling by magic.
Whether or not you happen to have them at your fingertips the entire time of performance is a matter of style.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
fonda57
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I've worked on Mr. is Townsend's original, and while it is not "easy" like many others, it sure is magical, except in my hands. But I'm trying!
I j
DallasFrank
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Here is the recording of David Roth's thoughts on 3 fly

https://soundcloud.com/conjuringarts

Frank
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