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mastermindreader
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On May 23, 2015, Dynamike wrote:
I thought Ireland was a strong, aggressive and tough country. I guess I thought wrong. Smile


No. You were absolutely right. It takes a strong, aggressive and tough country to beat discrimination of any kind.
mastermindreader
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On May 23, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
I think it's good that they allowed people to decide how they want to run their country. Agree or disagree, it's seems reasonable to me!


Maybe it sounds reasonable to you. But when it comes to equal rights, the so-called "tyranny of the majority" didn't seem reasonable to our Founding Fathers. One of the reasons the Bill of Rights was enacted was to
Quote:
prevent a scenario in which decisions made by a majority place its interests above those of an individual or minority group, constituting active oppression comparable to that of tyrants and despots.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

(If you'd like to read the direct sources, you might refer to the writings of John Stuart Mill, Edmond Burke, James Madison and Thomas Jefferson.)
Darth_Prime
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On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, Darth_Prime wrote:
Yaaaas!

I'm so happy for Ireland, it's sad that people are voting on our rights, just because we are Gay doesn't mean we shouldn't be recognized as Human... hopefully the US can get it right finally too

Our constitution was written in a different time, and we were delighted to change it. It was not so much a matter of voting on gay rights, as acknowledging that there is only one type of citizen in this country, and that is an equal citizen.

For as long as I remember there has been little or no discrimination against gays here, but there is a perception among the gay community that the discrimination still exists. I hope tonight, as the whole country parties and celebrates, they realize the bad old days are well and truly in the past. We have openly gay government ministers and politicians, openly gay sports stars, openly gay presidential candidates, and even openly gay priests.

Whatever the conservative wing of the Magic Café might think (and I am surprised to see some negativity in what should be a good news thread) it is a great day for the Irish.


In my limited knowledge of Ireland, wasn't it Illegal until 1993? or 1992?
Slim King
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On May 23, 2015, Darth_Prime wrote:
Yaaaas!

I'm so happy for Ireland, it's sad that people are voting on our rights, just because we are Gay doesn't mean we shouldn't be recognized as Human... hopefully the US can get it right finally too


I've never heard ANYONE say gays were Inhuman... NEVER ... I've heard them called sinful, just like the rest of us .. But NEVER INHUMAN ... Do you have examples of that?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Magnus Eisengrim
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On May 23, 2015, Dynamike wrote:
I thought Ireland was a strong, aggressive and tough country. I guess I thought wrong. Smile


You know I almost believed you when you claimed that your homophobia was no more than a typo.


http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=6
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
TonyB2009
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Yes, Darth, we did not get off to a good start. In the eighties Ireland was not a good place to be gay. But by the nineties that had changed completely. A lot of that was down to brave politicians like Senator David Norris (gay rights campaigner, English professor, politician and almost our President), and a lot of it was down to us maturing as a society. By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays, though it took a while for the laws to catch up.

Today there is no stigma to being gay in Ireland. According to my son one of his buddies in school is openly gay, and no one cares. We have finally become the society we should be.
rockwall
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So, what was the percentages on the vote?
LobowolfXXX
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On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Yes, Darth, we did not get off to a good start. In the eighties Ireland was not a good place to be gay. But by the nineties that had changed completely. A lot of that was down to brave politicians like Senator David Norris (gay rights campaigner, English professor, politician and almost our President), and a lot of it was down to us maturing as a society. By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays, though it took a while for the laws to catch up.

Today there is no stigma to being gay in Ireland. According to my son one of his buddies in school is openly gay, and no one cares. We have finally become the society we should be.



http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style.......2200482
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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On May 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
So, what was the percentages on the vote?


According to my source, 62.1% in favour.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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OK. Just wondering. So, when Tony says, "By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays", he actually means only 38% of the Irish are still homophobic bigots I guess.
TonyB2009
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On May 23, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Yes, Darth, we did not get off to a good start. In the eighties Ireland was not a good place to be gay. But by the nineties that had changed completely. A lot of that was down to brave politicians like Senator David Norris (gay rights campaigner, English professor, politician and almost our President), and a lot of it was down to us maturing as a society. By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays, though it took a while for the laws to catch up.

Today there is no stigma to being gay in Ireland. According to my son one of his buddies in school is openly gay, and no one cares. We have finally become the society we should be.



http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style.......2200482

I read that article too. I read plenty like it in the Irish Times, which were published to create a sense that there was a prejudice here that there actually isn't. That prejudice was entirely in the writer's head.

I have friends who came out to complete support and acceptance many years ago, and that is a more realistic view of the situation. I have one friend who never came out because no one cared. He has been openly living with his boyfriend for fifteen years. Of course that doesn't make a dramatic story, so he was never interviewed.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On May 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
OK. Just wondering. So, when Tony says, "By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays", he actually means only 38% of the Irish are still homophobic bigots I guess.


He is no doubt overstating the case. Given the strong (but diminishing) presence of the Roman Catholic church in Ireland, it is possible that much of the 38% No vote was composed of the "love the sinner, but sex outside of sacramental marriage is always wrong" crowd.

It is fascinating that every Irish political party, large or small, supported the referendum. Now that's something significant.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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On May 23, 2015, Dynamike wrote:
I thought Ireland was a strong, aggressive and tough country. I guess I thought wrong. Smile


After ask of your race baiting you do this?

Very classy.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Darth_Prime
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On May 23, 2015, Slim King wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, Darth_Prime wrote:
Yaaaas!

I'm so happy for Ireland, it's sad that people are voting on our rights, just because we are Gay doesn't mean we shouldn't be recognized as Human... hopefully the US can get it right finally too


I've never heard ANYONE say gays were Inhuman... NEVER ... I've heard them called sinful, just like the rest of us .. But NEVER INHUMAN ... Do you have examples of that?


Besides personal stories, I've only found older articles in which people either say "Inhuman" or allude to it.

my base for saying that is we should get the same "Human" rights as someone who is not Gay, instead we have to get our marriage rights voted on, and discrimination laws are being passed etc. we are not being treated the same as other "Humans" just because we are Gay
LobowolfXXX
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On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Yes, Darth, we did not get off to a good start. In the eighties Ireland was not a good place to be gay. But by the nineties that had changed completely. A lot of that was down to brave politicians like Senator David Norris (gay rights campaigner, English professor, politician and almost our President), and a lot of it was down to us maturing as a society. By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays, though it took a while for the laws to catch up.

Today there is no stigma to being gay in Ireland. According to my son one of his buddies in school is openly gay, and no one cares. We have finally become the society we should be.



http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style.......2200482

I read that article too. I read plenty like it in the Irish Times, which were published to create a sense that there was a prejudice here that there actually isn't. That prejudice was entirely in the writer's head.

I have friends who came out to complete support and acceptance many years ago, and that is a more realistic view of the situation. I have one friend who never came out because no one cared. He has been openly living with his boyfriend for fifteen years. Of course that doesn't make a dramatic story, so he was never interviewed.


Or perhaps your friends'' experiences can't be universalized to the point that you think they can.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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On May 23, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Yes, Darth, we did not get off to a good start. In the eighties Ireland was not a good place to be gay. But by the nineties that had changed completely. A lot of that was down to brave politicians like Senator David Norris (gay rights campaigner, English professor, politician and almost our President), and a lot of it was down to us maturing as a society. By the nineties there was no real prejudice against gays, though it took a while for the laws to catch up.

Today there is no stigma to being gay in Ireland. According to my son one of his buddies in school is openly gay, and no one cares. We have finally become the society we should be.



http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style.......2200482

I read that article too. I read plenty like it in the Irish Times, which were published to create a sense that there was a prejudice here that there actually isn't. That prejudice was entirely in the writer's head.

I have friends who came out to complete support and acceptance many years ago, and that is a more realistic view of the situation. I have one friend who never came out because no one cared. He has been openly living with his boyfriend for fifteen years. Of course that doesn't make a dramatic story, so he was never interviewed.


Or perhaps your friends' experiences can't be universalized to the point that you think they can.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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On May 23, 2015, Slim King wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, Darth_Prime wrote:
Yaaaas!

I'm so happy for Ireland, it's sad that people are voting on our rights, just because we are Gay doesn't mean we shouldn't be recognized as Human... hopefully the US can get it right finally too


I've never heard ANYONE say gays were Inhuman... NEVER ... I've heard them called sinful, just like the rest of us .. But NEVER INHUMAN ... Do you have examples of that?


Just do a quick Google search on the phrase "gays called subhuman." I just did and there's not enough space to even think about putting all the links here.
Scott Burton
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Congrats Tony! Congrats Ireland! Stories like this make me feel good.

From all I could read, it is only the Catholic church that publicly opposed this. All political parties showed support. Is this really the case? (I realize that world news and local realities may be very different)
Destiny
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On May 23, 2015, magicfish wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, Destiny wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On May 23, 2015, Destiny wrote:
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On May 23, 2015, magicfish wrote:
Have you ever considered that your comprehension of posts here isn't always accurate? Or that you are often too presumptuous?
Please show me an opposing opinion to my own relevant to this thread.
please tell me where I said the Irish hadnt made a thoughtful decision.
I will now breathlessly await your next load of self righteous wit.


Sorry - if you choose to give one word answers, you will have to tolerate(oh gosh - there's a terrible word) me making what I can of it.

Or you could always be less ambiguous.

Why is 'tolerate' a terrible word?
And where was I ambiguous? You asked me a simple straightforward question, I gave you a simple straightforward answer. Im sorry I don't suffer from verbal diahrrea and don't live to hear myself talk like someone else here.


So both deaf and verbally constipated?

Don't be so hard on yourself. I wouldn't say you're deaf, just blind or maybe a superiority complex. You're constantly jumping to conclusions and you're usually wrong. Then, you back pedal with a snide shallow apology and wait to attack again. Like now.
As far as Verbal constipation goes, I would say yes, you are a sufferer, so I will ask again.
Why is 'tolerate' such an awful word?


The 'tolerate' was ironic.

I never make 'snide, shallow' apologies. Anytime I apologise I mean it.
balducci
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Http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32862824

Some excerpts from link above follow:

One of Ireland's most senior Catholic clerics has called for the Church to take a 'reality check' following the country's overwhelming vote in favour of same-sex marriage. Diarmuid Martin, the archbishop of Dublin, said the Church in Ireland needed to reconnect with young people. The archbishop told the broadcaster RTE: "I appreciate how gay and lesbian men and women feel on this day. That they feel this is something that is enriching the way they live. I think it is a social revolution."

The Catholic Church is not immune from the influence of an increasingly liberal Ireland. In his appeal for a no vote the church's most senior figure In Ireland specifically recognised the love shared between same sex couples. That is a softening of language and in its own way a sign of wider change.

In total, 1,201,607 people voted in favour of same-sex marriage, while 734,300 voted against. Out of 43 constituencies, only the largely rural Roscommon-South Leitrim had a majority of 'no' votes. The government will now introduce a bill to enact the people's will, and it says it hopes it will become law by the time the Irish parliament breaks up in the summer.
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