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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Do you think the Cross cut force fool someone? experiances? (21 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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RiderBacks
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I'll look up the Jay Ose false cut. I didn't respond with particular knowledge of this false cut. However, generally, these false cuts are done so quickly that you it's very hard to follow the cards. They're also done with a limited number of packets. When a limited number of packets are cut in such a way that it is difficult to follow the cards, the intelligent spectator immediately suspects a false cut. A well-executed up-the-ladder sequence does much less to arouse suspicion. Way too much mixing appears to be going on for it to be suspected false, even in the minds of highly intelligent spectators.

In other news, I actually witnessed the most lowly force/bluff I've ever seen recently. This might actually have a name. If so, I don't know it and I don't want to. First, the magi gave the deck a single ruffle shuffle (preserving top stock, of course.) Then he asked an audience member to pick a number, say, between one and ten. He then dealt that number of cards face down off the top of the deck into the audience member's hand. Next, he picked up the packet in the audience member's hand and showed the audience the bottom card (that'd be the top card of the initial deck). This was supposed to be the randomly chosen card. I carefully observed the audience's reaction. I noticed that at least one adult whispered an explanation of what happened to his buddy. I was unable to determine what the children thought, or how many of the adults noticed this bluff. I am, however, reasonably confident that many, if not most, were completely (and very sadly) fooled.

I wonder if defenders of the cross-cut are going to claim this move is permissible? Thankfully, the move was followed by a little bit of misdirection, but it clearly wasn't enough misdirection for any adult with a working brain. Maybe it played well for the children, but I couldn't really tell. I sort of think that the children present were probably not sure what to think of the trick.

As an aside, I thought the performer's show was overall alright. Many people were puzzled by at least some (if not all) of the effects. I was also puzzled by one or two, and if you manage to puzzle me on occasion, I'm happy to say you're doing fine.
RiderBacks
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On Dec 4, 2015, Count Lustig wrote: You favor the up-the-ladder cut. Nothing wrong with that. But if you don't realize that the up-the-ladder cut works by confusing the audience as to which packet is which, you don't understand the move. (If the audience realized which packet is which, they would realize that the deck is in the same order.) Both the Ose cut and the up-the-ladder cut are effective because the audience doesn't feel confused. They think they followed what happened. (Kind of like the way you think you know what you're talking about.


You clearly don't know what you're talking about. With most tabled false cuts using small numbers of packets, intelligent people feel confused. Intelligent people do not feel confused by a well-executed up-the-ladder sequence, since they don't expect it to possibly be false.
Count Lustig
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On Dec 6, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, Count Lustig wrote: You favor the up-the-ladder cut. Nothing wrong with that. But if you don't realize that the up-the-ladder cut works by confusing the audience as to which packet is which, you don't understand the move. (If the audience realized which packet is which, they would realize that the deck is in the same order.) Both the Ose cut and the up-the-ladder cut are effective because the audience doesn't feel confused. They think they followed what happened. (Kind of like the way you think you know what you're talking about.


You clearly don't know what you're talking about. With most tabled false cuts using small numbers of packets, intelligent people feel confused. Intelligent people do not feel confused by a well-executed up-the-ladder sequence, since they don't expect it to possibly be false.

Well, I'm sure you must feel that you're making some sort of a point.
Ben Blau
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On Dec 5, 2015, magicfish wrote:
Jon Racherbaumer observed that the Ose Cut looks more real from the spectator's vantage point than a true triple cut to the table.


It's true. Absolutely one of my favorite techniques in card magic.
Peckham
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I use it occasionally and it works fine. You need to delay the reveal and the forget the sequence. I think Gary Ouellet had a version of this page n his book, Close Up Illusions.
RiderBacks
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On Dec 6, 2015, Peckham wrote: I use it occasionally and it works fine. You need to delay the reveal and the [sic] forget the sequence. I think Gary Ouellet had a version of this page n his book, Close Up Illusions.


Sometimes I'm not sure why I continue this. You do not make magic by adding "time delay." You increase confusion. What kind of hubris must you have to believe that your (polite) spectator is fooled by this nonsense? What they're thinking to themselves is, "Oh crap. I forgot which packet was which. Darnit, why didn't I pay better attention!?" There is no illusion of a real cut created for a remotely intelligent spectator. They know you're doing a magic trick. They expect you to be cheating. They will, and do, realize they haven't been paying close enough attention, and they will suspect that you did not cut the cards fairly. Since they are probably polite, and fault themselves for not keeping better track of a single packet, they won't say anything. But you're not doing magic.
Count Lustig
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On Dec 6, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
Sometimes I'm not sure why I continue this.

Because you enjoy looking foolish?


Quote:
On Dec 6, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
You do not make magic by adding "time delay." You increase confusion.

Time delay is a form of misdirection. In fact, it's often called "time misdirection." Misdirection is the foundation of magic. No magician needs to apologize for using it.


Quote:
On Dec 6, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
What kind of hubris must you have to believe that your (polite) spectator is fooled by this nonsense? What they're thinking to themselves is, "Oh crap. I forgot which packet was which. Darnit, why didn't I pay better attention!?"

What kind of hubris must you have to believe that you know what a spectator is thinking, not based on what they say, not based on how they act, not based on how they react to the effect, but just based on what you want to believe is true?
magicfish
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Im having trouble taking this whole thing serious. I suspect we're being pranked.
There is no way a knowledgeable magician can pontificate with such authority ...and have so very little knowledge.
He's going to "look up" Ose's Cut. Is he serious?
He's unaware of one cardmagic's great weapons from Close-Up Card Magic but he is an authority on false cuts.
He refuses to acknowledge the expert treatment given the Crosscut Force by the all time greats.
Is this a joke?
Now watch? His next post will begin with, "The only joke here is your....."
Yawn.
Overworked
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"You do not make magic by adding "time delay." You increase confusion."

? It is a bit difficult to believe that anyone who would say this has any experience actually performing for people.
RiderBacks
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On Dec 6, 2015, magicfish wrote: He's going to "look up" Ose's Cut. Is he serious?


I looked it up. Then I snorted coffee out of my nose.

Quote:
He's unaware of one cardmagic's great weapons from Close-Up Card Magic but he is an authority on false cuts.


I do not consider Ose's False Cut to be "one of card magic's great weapons." I consider it to be a basic, beginner move for a magician who doesn't want to acquire any serious chops. It's simpler than I expected it to be. In fact, you can't get simpler... Thanks to you, I'm now going to be stuck remembering the name of this lowly little move I'll never, ever deploy.

Quote:
He refuses to acknowledge the expert treatment given the Crosscut Force by the all time greats. Is this a joke?


The expert treatment of the cross-cut force? What are you talking about? That's like talking about some "expert treatment of drying dishes with a dish towel!" Now I know you're just pulling my leg. By the way, Harry Lorayne has published about three million things. Not all of them are going to be good, bud.
magicfish
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On Dec 6, 2015, Overworked wrote:
"You do not make magic by adding "time delay." You increase confusion."

? It is a bit difficult to believe that anyone who would say this has any experience actually performing for people.

Ah yes. It seems you have support from your own alias.
Time misdirection is one of the strongest principles in magic; deeply explored by its greatest practitioners. Fred Kaps, Tommy Wonder, Houdini,Copperfield, Henning, Slydini etc, all used it. You, and your alter ego, are clearly trolling.
magicfish
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On Dec 6, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2015, magicfish wrote: He's going to "look up" Ose's Cut. Is he serious?


I looked it up. Then I snorted coffee out of my nose.

Quote:
He's unaware of one cardmagic's great weapons from Close-Up Card Magic but he is an authority on false cuts.


I do not consider Ose's False Cut to be "one of card magic's great weapons." I consider it to be a basic, beginner move for a magician who doesn't want to acquire any serious chops. It's simpler than I expected it to be. In fact, you can't get simpler... Thanks to you, I'm now going to be stuck remembering the name of this lowly little move I'll never, ever deploy.

Quote:
He refuses to acknowledge the expert treatment given the Crosscut Force by the all time greats. Is this a joke?


The expert treatment of the cross-cut force? What are you talking about? That's like talking about some "expert treatment of drying dishes with a dish towel!" Now I know you're just pulling my leg. By the way, Harry Lorayne has published about three million things. Not all of them are going to be good, bud.

Anybody more eloquent than I care to publicly ridicule this buffoon?
LesL
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On Dec 5, 2015, magicfish wrote:
I hear movement under the bridge...

Too funny! I don't even know why you people even bother to respond.
magicfish
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One last thing before I go.
The reason you are oblivious to the expert- yes expert- treatment of this cut by John Bannon Simon Aronson, Alan Ackerman etc, is because you don't read. You don't study. You are magically illiterate. You are who Mike Close was writing about in his essay in Workers 5. Which you don't know about.
You have less knowledge of magic than my hamster has about ancient Mesopotamia.
Everything ive said here is of course, not true, because your position here is untrue. Its a lie.
You're "pulling our leg" and a few of us have an idea who you might be.
Well played.
RiderBacks
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For you, magicfish. I'll let you try to figure out the source of this cut, since I'm sure you won't recognize it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO5tukq0Ly4#t=4m28s

This is not the best execution, but I wanted to make you do at least a little work to figure out where that's from.
magicfish
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On Dec 6, 2015, LesL wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 5, 2015, magicfish wrote:
I hear movement under the bridge...

Too funny! I don't even know why you people even bother to respond.

Sometimes we like to humour the trolls for a bit. They start off convincingly, but then they betray themselves within a few posts. It was kinda funny though. Meh not really.
magicfish
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On Dec 6, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
For you, magicfish. I'll let you try to figure out the source of this cut, since I'm sure you won't recognize it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO5tukq0Ly4#t=4m28s

This is not the best execution, but I wanted to make you do at least a little work to figure out where that's from.

Very well done, Rider, let me check my library and I'll see if I can track it down. My first instinct is Charlie Miller but don't quote me on it. But it must be one of the greats. Very smooth Rider. Thanks
P.s. I see you're left handed.
RiderBacks
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On Dec 6, 2015, magicfish wrote: My first instinct is Charlie Miller but don't quote me on it. But it must be one of the greats.


You're sort of close. That guess was better than I expected from you!
RiderBacks
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For giggles, here's a ten word explanation of the Jay Ose Tabled Full False Cut, the miracle of contemporary card magic, one of the greatest gifts to magicians ever, and the shiniest, hidden gem in Close-Up Card Magic! From the greatest minds in card magic! All rights reserved. A real fooler! You'll have the audience in fits. Start clean and end clean! No gimmicks or memorization. Instant reset! Works with any deck of playing cards. And 100% gaff free. Here we go folks! Are you ready?

Top of deck to table. Repeat. Lay down remaining. Assemble.
magicfish
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Keep talkin Rider, we're getting closer...
Do you wear glasses?
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Do you think the Cross cut force fool someone? experiances? (21 Likes)
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