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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Do you think the Cross cut force fool someone? experiances? (21 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Terrible Wizard
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Hmmm... I'm not sure it's about intelligence. The cross cut had fooled smart people too, and I've been busted by someone not super smart ... Dunno.
Thudling
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I do a similar trick, telling people I'm going to use my "mental powers" to read the card they cut to. After they cut the deck, I say "Now remember, using my mental powers (tap my forehead, make them look up at me)..." That little break in their concentration is all I need, never been caught.
Count Lustig
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On Oct 29, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
Well, half the general public is of below average intelligence... That's just a fact.

You're confusing "average" and "median" (which may indicate which side of the dividing line you fall on).
RiderBacks
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On Oct 29, 2015, Count Lustig wrote: You're confusing "average" and "median" (which may indicate which side of the dividing line you fall on).


No I wasn't. But you clearly are. Good try, though.
RS1963
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On Oct 14, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
I hate this force. I hate it with a passion so strong you can't even begin to imagine my hate. That said, I'm sure the vast majority of people are stupid enough to fall for this nonsense. After all, half of them are of below average intelligence. However, I would rather kill myself than rely on this force. If you can't force better, you'll still probably fool a fair number with it. If you know your audience will fall for it, go for it. But dear god, please work on forcing better! This is a force that fools a significant percentage of the population, but it's very sad that fools so many. If you're just starting out? OK. I can see that. But please, please, work on learning better forces.


Mark Lewis is this you?
Count Lustig
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On Oct 30, 2015, RS1963 wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 14, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
I hate this force. I hate it with a passion so strong you can't even begin to imagine my hate. That said, I'm sure the vast majority of people are stupid enough to fall for this nonsense. After all, half of them are of below average intelligence. However, I would rather kill myself than rely on this force. If you can't force better, you'll still probably fool a fair number with it. If you know your audience will fall for it, go for it. But dear god, please work on forcing better! This is a force that fools a significant percentage of the population, but it's very sad that fools so many. If you're just starting out? OK. I can see that. But please, please, work on learning better forces.


Mark Lewis is this you?

No way. Mark Lewis was opinionated, but he usually knew what he was talking about. And at least Mark is competent enough to fool people with a crosscut force. (He probably knows what a median is too.)
RS1963
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By the way Riderbacks it is a fact that the more intelligent are easier to fool so if you have failed at using the C.C. force your spectators and maybe even your self have been the stupid ones.
Teyo
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Once you use good time misdirection you shouldn't have any problem with the CC force if that fails you can go into a cut deeper force
RiderBacks
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On Nov 2, 2015, RS1963 wrote: By the way Riderbacks it is a fact that the more intelligent are easier to fool so if you have failed at using the C.C. force your spectators and maybe even your self have been the stupid ones.


That's pretty cute. =)
lord_wallmotto
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Just as RiderBacks is saying, it depends on what type of audience you are performing for.

For a group of people who have had a few beers at the pub or for some average joe at a restaurant in vegas? Sure, use it, it will work most of the time.

But for a group of Ph.Ds who are highly trained in engineering, maths, physics, logics etc who are used to keep an insane amount of information in their working memory while solving incredibly difficult problems? Nah.

There is not a single thing in all of magic than hearing magicians saying "Do not worry, it will just fly by them! Use some time misdirection, they won't notice!"

Who are "Them" that it will just fly by?
RiderBacks
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On Nov 5, 2015, lord_wallmotto wrote:

Just as RiderBacks is saying, it depends on what type of audience you are performing for.

For a group of people who have had a few beers at the pub or for some average joe at a restaurant in vegas? Sure, use it, it will work most of the time.

But for a group of Ph.Ds who are highly trained in engineering, maths, physics, logics etc who are used to keep an insane amount of information in their working memory while solving incredibly difficult problems? Nah.

There is not a single thing in all of magic than hearing magicians saying "Do not worry, it will just fly by them! Use some time misdirection, they won't notice!"

Who are "Them" that it will just fly by?


I agree completely. And if you're performing for unknowns, you'll have no idea who has a Ph.D. in Logic, Set Theory, Quantum Physics, etc... And when one of these people decides to say, "Well that was lame, you just..." Well, then you're completely busted. You'd better have something really good to follow that failure up with if anyone is even still interested in seeing you do another trick.
lord_wallmotto
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On Nov 2, 2015, RS1963 wrote:
By the way Riderbacks it is a fact that the more intelligent are easier to fool so if you have failed at using the C.C. force your spectators and maybe even your self have been the stupid ones.


What do you base that statement on? It is a fact? Are there scientific studies that suports your claim? Just wondering, since you are saying that it is a fact.

In this case, we also have to define what we consider as a "more intelligent" person before we move on.

If it works for you, fine, use it. I am just saying that most intelligent people who in addition to being intelligent are trained in subjects where you have to be extremely focused and aware and at the same time keep an insane amount of information in their working memory while solving difficult tasks won't have much trouble following what just happened. If they do fall for it, you have a problem, because they simply do not care enough about you to be focused enough on your performance.
Terrible Wizard
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Without studies either claim is just conjecture ...
Terrible Wizard
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But isn't there a track record of magicians fooling intelligent, focussed scientists with simple tricks (Geller, babachek, Randi etc)?
RiderBacks
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On Nov 6, 2015, Terrible Wizard wrote: But isn't there a track record of magicians fooling intelligent, focussed scientists with simple tricks (Geller, babachek, Randi etc)?


Being a scientist doesn't make you especially intelligent. Neither does being a neurosurgeon, as Ben Carson aptly demonstrates. There are more or less intelligent and more or less gullible people in just about every category. Not sure what your point is.
Terrible Wizard
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It was in response to those who made previous comments singling out certain professions etc in response to being fooled. Basically, I'm just saying, that sans true studies, we do have some evidence that points to intelligent people, trained in being focussed and observant, in a strict environment, still being fooled by simple magic tricks.
RiderBacks
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2015, Terrible Wizard wrote: It was in response to those who made previous comments singling out certain professions etc in response to being fooled. Basically, I'm just saying, that sans true studies, we do have some evidence that points to intelligent people, trained in being focussed and observant, in a strict environment, still being fooled by simple magic tricks.


I suppose the truth of this claim depends upon what we mean by "intelligent." Is Ben Carson intelligent? If you think so, then you've got a prime example of an "intelligent" person who is easily fooled.
Terrible Wizard
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Intelligence is a messy and controversial concept. Given the OP I suggest we consider 'intelligence' in its basic, vague, colloquial sense.

In which case the scientists that were fooled would have to be given the benefit of the doubt (assumed intelligent) given their profession and qualifications, and the burden of proof would rest would those who would argue they are not, in fact, intelligent (evidenced by IQ scores or similar).

So, given all that, it seems that we assume that even highly intelligent folk can be fooled by simple tricks, and thus we should tentatively conclude that the cross-cut can potentially fool even a smart guy. This is generally further supported by anecdotal evidence, it seems. Your mileage may vary, though.
Jacob3
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It's a super bold force, but it does work. Good tip to make it work is to wait a while after a spectator cuts the cards.
RiderBacks
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On Nov 11, 2015, Terrible Wizard wrote:
Intelligence is a messy and controversial concept. Given the OP I suggest we consider 'intelligence' in its basic, vague, colloquial sense.

In which case the scientists that were fooled would have to be given the benefit of the doubt (assumed intelligent) given their profession and qualifications, and the burden of proof would rest would those who would argue they are not, in fact, intelligent (evidenced by IQ scores or similar).

So, given all that, it seems that we assume that even highly intelligent folk can be fooled by simple tricks, and thus we should tentatively conclude that the cross-cut can potentially fool even a smart guy. This is generally further supported by anecdotal evidence, it seems. Your mileage may vary, though.


It's easy to fool people like Ben Carson. Fooling idiots who have some specific intelligence is not what I aim for. If you want to pull off moves that fool most laypeople, that's fine. I aim for fooling serious magicians and serious gamblers/ If the move can't fool members in those categories, I practice it more or give it up.
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