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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Do you think the Cross cut force fool someone? experiances? (21 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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marc_carrion
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As indicated by others, there are other methods that are not much more difficult, so it's better to invest a little bit of time on learning a better force than relying on the cross cut. But if what you need is a force where you don't touch the cards, maybe the 10/20 is a better way to go. Or use 13 card from a one way deck in your regular deck and force by estimation, ask the spectator to cut more or less half the deck... with 13 cards it's difficult to miss.

Marc
obrienmagic
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I perform the force differently. I hold the deck face-up and ask them to say stop as I drop groups of cards face-up onto the table. When they stop me, I turn all of the cards on the table facedown, then point to the remaining cards and ask, how many do you think are left? about half or so?, then place that packet onto the table packet in cross force positon. It just ads an extra layer to the thing, but in reality the same thing is happening as the standard version.
magicfish
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Or one could do it how Marlo did it with a demonstration cut, and, as John Bannon and Randy Wakeman agree, step the cut without "crossing it".
Combine these two tactics and the force is simply diabolical.
ebackes88
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It works, I've seen it fool the same person multiple times.
steinarthelen
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There are some great variations and tips on the force in Move Zero by John Bannon.
Yes I do think it fools someone. Not only someone but almost anyone. Not the force alone, but as a part of a well structured performance.
And especially if you make them believe they shuffled the deck before the cut.
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Raymond Singson
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This is one of my go-to favorite effects to perform for people. I filmed this performance a while back, but I think it demonstrates how time delay makes the force incredibly more deceptive. I've since adopted a lot of the additional subtleties that John Bannon covers in his work -- as stated above, there are some really great variations in Move Zero.

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SvenSigma
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I still remember the very first time I saw somebody do a cross cut - long ago. My reaction, roughly in this order:

1. That guy just cancelled the cut.
2. Did I really see that happen?
3. That guy is really bold.
4. Nobody can expect the audience too be so stupid.
5. No, I did not see that happen.
6. He really fooled us and I missed something.

So, in a way that cut captures the essence of magic.

Knowing my reaction, I am not bold enough to use it.
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.

The rest of life is essentially the same problem.

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tomd
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I've never used it. There are plenty of other forces that don't require much practice, and achieve the same goal. I don't see why you can't use it though, it forces you to misdirect which is a great skill to practice. And as others have said, it clearly works.
nattefrost
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SevenSigma- when you first saw that force, did the magician use time mis-direction after the cut was marked, or did he immediately turn over the "cut to" card? I know it has been said a million times but with a force like the cross-cut, the time delay you need to do with this is very, very important. I have used this force hundreds of times and have never been called out on it. That doesn't mean it will never happen, but I'll tell you it amazes me that with all of the effects I do, all the sleight of hand, gimmicks, gadgets, props, etc, sometimes I'll just take a piece of paper, write down the name of a card, put it in an envelope and place it on the table in full view, use the cross-cut force, MAKE SURE I tell a little story built in to the time mis-direction (NEVER just say "watch this.... cut the cards, look at the card you cut to, open the envelope", effect is over). I raise my voice (drama) to the tune of something like "now what is about to happen is so incredible" (or whatever patter you want to use), tell a quick story while looking them in the eye, and it just makes the entire sequence so much better. Just raising my voice a bit always makes them look away from the cards and directly at me, which is what I want.

Quick question for people that use this force- do you ever use it to force the BOTTOM card of the deck?
nattefrost
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Tomd- that's true though, there are a bunch of forces that don't require a lot of practice. The force that is used in "Overkill" by Paul Harris is great. I know it's a procedure just to get to the forced card but it's just a really nice force for that effect.
SvenSigma
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Nattefrost - I'm pretty sure there was some time misdirection, but it added more to the fact of not believing what I saw than being real misdirection. But I know that in many situations I see details that others miss (could have no connection to magic).
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.

The rest of life is essentially the same problem.

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tomd
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Nattefrost - Very true, and there can only be a positive outcome from expanding your knowledge of forces. My prefered force is the pinky slip (Not sure of the actual name), its easy to master, natural and quick. That being said, I rarely incooperate force cards into my magic, I guess I always prefer to give them a genuine free choice. I have utilities that allow for me to pretend I knew which card they picked (CTW like the F1), and that seems to hit harder from experience.
RiderBacks
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, SevenSigma wrote:

I still remember the very first time I saw somebody do a cross cut - long ago. My reaction, roughly in this order:

1. That guy just cancelled the cut


That'd be a smart first reaction. You should have stuck with it. Most smart people do.
SvenSigma
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Quote:
On Aug 6, 2016, RiderBacks wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, SevenSigma wrote:

I still remember the very first time I saw somebody do a cross cut - long ago. My reaction, roughly in this order:

1. That guy just cancelled the cut


That'd be a smart first reaction. You should have stuck with it. Most smart people do.


Well, in a way I stuck to it in the long term. The beauty of magic is that it does not only address the intellect but also emotions. It still works for me when seeing a true master at work. Then I stop to guess how he does it and just enjoy. Cross-cut excluded Smile
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.

The rest of life is essentially the same problem.

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Craigers
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John Bannon - Move Zero !! Takes the cross cut force to places you wouldn't believe !!
John C
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You don't "fool" people if you make it look like just a thing. A second thought. Time misdirection etc. Yes watch bannon.
These things have been in play for decades. They are timeless.
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Soumyajit
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Just tried cross cut for the first time today on my roommate. As I lay the pack on top, I explained him the premise of the trick and then went back to it. Worked like charm Smile
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AndreaMooreMagic
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There is 2 way that works for me with the cross cut .
One is to use the time delay between the cuts,
Second is to hit the 2 halve of the deck together to "keep" them square up, with interrupts there thinking pattern.
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