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greerj Loyal user East Tennessee 282 Posts |
Thank you, S2000magician.
I hope I didn't come across as an ass....I try not to be, could certainly can be at times. |
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greerj Loyal user East Tennessee 282 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 3, 2015, greerj wrote: I meant but certainly can be at times...I assuming that this wasn't standard behavior for most professors. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
The actions of both sets of parents in the cartoon were harmful to their children.
Ask your typical teenager what the meaning of the word pride is. See the blank looks that cross their faces. I have. Most define it as what they appear to be in the eyes of others. It's very sad.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Thank you Twister, it sounds like you "get it."
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 2, 2015, Cliffg37 wrote: Your answer is so for off that it is hard to find a starting point. You claim that private school teachers are not as qualified as public sector teachers. Then I guess college instructors are even worse because they do not need a teaching degree. Why do teachers have better salaries in public schools? Not because they are better qualified. But because of unions and their connections to get hired. So I miss your point there. No one here is telling you how to run your class. however you should have to answer to a superior in any position be it teaching or working at a fast food restaurant. it is called supervision and that is how things are run. You are given responsibilities and must fulfill them and not to the best of your ability but rather to certain standards laid down to you. Honestly it seems like many who have a career in academia lose sight of reality. Teaching is a job like any other. You must to it correctly in order to fulfill your responsibility to your employer. And in this case you owe it not only to the employer but to your students. Again if your ability is not good enough you should be weeded out and find something else. But not be allowed to stay in teaching and do a disservice to all those who depend on you. Why are teachers so afraid of checks and balances?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I went to a teachers Halloween party once, where they had black candles instead of white, inverted crosses, chalices containing the blood of new-born infants sacrificed for ritual purposes, urine for holy water, all these were part of the paraphernalia needed, according to the headmater, to propitiate the Prince of Darkness and his retinue of minor Devils.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, tommy wrote: Was that party held at the White House between 1993 an 2001 and was it only for teachers?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I don't know I was blindfolded and taken there to do a few card tricks but they let me kiss the Head Masters tail.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 3, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: I also suspect that 'generally' speaking, that in the past more poor people wanted to see their kids finish school and valued education as a way out of their situation than do now. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, rockwall wrote: Make no mistake, lower income families have in the past and do now want the very best for their children, including having aspirations that they receive a good education. Our societies have done a great deal to make this possible. Public education is available to all. Some post secondary is affordable. The opportunities are better than they ever have been in the past (but are still not perfect). Yet lower-income earners are less involved in their children's education than higher-income earners. There are some obvious reasons for it--for example often lower-income earners have to work more hours to make ends meet. Often they have social and cultural barriers.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
It's too bad Paula's parents didn't have a boy (let's call him Paul) and Richard's a girl (let's call her Rikki); then we could opine how much easier waiter Rikki has had it than executive Paula.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Rich old men marry young women and die leaving them fortunes, then the women go and get a toy boy and so what has education and work got to do with it?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Except for those lower income families who have been convinced by their 'supporters' that nothing they can do will ever change their circumstances. |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 1, 2015, acesover wrote: I wonder if this response is part of an academic debate or if I should take it personally? Aces, if you want to debate I am willing, but "Your answer is so far off..." seems kind of personal, like "forget you...." Perhaps you did not mean it that way. Please don't argue with this simple fact (one that I have experienced personally) To teach in a private school, Joe Citizen must have a clean record with the police dept as demonstrated by a fingerprint scan. Beyond that, the potential teacher need only convince the school admin that he can do the job. That is to say a smooth talker with no experience could get hired. I know this as I lived it. To get hired in a public school, after the police finger print report, the potential teacher must show course work and or a credential that proves he knows what he is doing on his topic. He will not get an interview with any admin at all until after that happens and is verified. (Admittedly I am speaking for California here, I don't know about other states) I went through this process too. To teach in college, the potential teacher must have (depending on the level of the college) at least a master's degree in his subject. (Some community colleges will accept a public school teaching credential for some classes, but you won't rise above the level of "Instructor" that way.) Now here is an interesting question for Joe Citizen out there. How much money should a teacher earn? To be a teacher you need.... A four year college degree from an accredited school Classes or an exam that prove you know your subject material A fifth year of teaching classes (In some states, the credential will be void if the teacher does not earn a master's degree in an allotted time from an accredited university, at the teacher's expense) Don't forget what teachers do beyond the 7 hour day.... (Time may vary by school or state) I am expected to prepare and submit lesson plans to the admin, showing what I do on a daily basis and how. I do not get paid for what ever time this takes. Often I do it at home. I am expected to tutor 1 hour a week. If I get more than ten students,(rarely) I will be paid at half my hourly rate. Less then ten, I do it for free. I am expected to facilitate at least one campus club. I do this for free. If we have a Saturday event, that is my time and travel... On me. We haven't talked about grading yet. By law I must have 32 graded assignments per student/per semester. I am given time during the day to meet with parents as needed, but if a parent can not come during the day, I am expected to stay after until they can. Sometimes this can be quite late (Oh well, I can use the time for grading) I imagine other teachers can add to that list. But back to my question, how should a teacher be paid? True, I don't work over the summer unless I teach summer school by choice, but I also don't get paid over the summer, and it is on me to take money from each paycheck to cover my summer, or work it (at a lower rate btw.) OK, so how much?
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I spent about half of my school years attending a public school and half attending a private school. The teachers at the private school were no worse on balance than the ones at the public school. The four-year degree (in English, anyway) isn't a necessary or sufficient condition for knowing a subject. It's good that credentialiing exists, but it ain't the bar exam or the medical boards, and there are plenty of bad teachers out there.
For extra credit, I note that "How much should I get paid?" Is a trick question, since you haven't told us whether or not you're any good at your job. For those who don't care about such things, it's still a trick question, as you haven't told us how long you've been doing your job.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Good question Lobo, I like it. and I will agree with you about the quality of teaching exams vs say "the bar". Yes, there are bad teachers. Most bad teachers hate their job and end up leaving the profession or at least the classroom. The problem is not the bad teachers, but the good teachers who are tired and burned out. The profession is not always nice to us. But your question was how good a teacher am I? btw, early in this thread I mentioned I have been teaching for 25 years.
How good am I at my job. Hmmmmm, how to answer it? My principal, who does NOT know anything about Physics, but has a PhD in education, rates me at the highest point in the grade scale when she observes me. She praises me openly and publicly for what I do in the classroom, both for being a teacher and for innovative ideas. For most of my career I was tasked with taking a room full of 38 or more teenagers who did not want to be there, and make them pay attention and stay on task. Early on I was not so great at this, but I learned fast. My students like me, even the one who do not do as well as they might like. I get along very well with ALMOST all the parents, and they tell me their children like me, and enjoy my class. Many (not all) students come back to thank me (now often by e-mail) for how I inspired them into studying science in college. Twice in my career I have had the heart warming experience of turning around a lost student who thought of themselves as failures. I don't know if any of that criteria is of use to you, but that is me and who I am in the classroom.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Assuming what you've said is accurate, (and I have no reason not to think so), I'd say that at the least, you probably deserve more pay than all those teachers rated lower than you. (That's not how Unions work though, is it?)
As far as, "Most bad teachers hate their job and end up leaving the profession or at least the classroom.", is this simply anecdotal or are there any actual studies that show this? |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 5, 2015, rockwall wrote: The early-career departure rates of teachers has been studied and is well-known. It's fairly high, as I recall, but not much higher than for other professions that require specialized university training. I have never heard of a study that linked early departure to low teacher quality, but you would expect some correlation.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I think the opposite may be true. Teaching is an occupation in which you can put as much or as little into as you seem fit. Teachers with low ambitions and ethics are able to "phone it in" and wait until retirement (which is usually earlier than most professions). I've known plenty of them.
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 5, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: why? I would think the opposite. Early departure rates are probably due to poor pay during those early years and more highly motivated individuals may find they can get better pay elsewhere. At least that's the correlation that I would expect to see. |
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