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NYCTwister
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Http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew......sed.html

Who was it that ordered this?

Why are they not in jail?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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I agree that they're not above lying about it. If you're suggesting that the prisoner(s) would be, though, I disagree.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
acesover
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.


No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law. Not even Khan.

I agree.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.


No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law. Not even Khan.

I agree.


Do you also agree that Mr Khan could be lying?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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You don't think he could?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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I get the impression that NYCTwister may accept that Mr Khan could possibly be lying but that he believes it MUCH more likely that it's the CIA lying. Whereas I find the opposite to be true.
NYCTwister
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Sure, anyone could, but that's not the point, nor was it the reason for me asking Ace.
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tommy
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Mr Khan can't be lying regarding independent medical evidence of his torture as it is not his evidence but the experts.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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NYCTwister
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What I'm saying is that, after being being detained and tortured for nine years, Mr. Khan may have lied when he confessed, but that's beside the point.

Let's assume that Mr. Khan was exaggerating. Let's say that half of what he says is true. What justification then?

At the time of the torture he was no threat, with no active plans. How do you justify what was done to a human being in this countries name?

There is none. If we are going to go around and claim the moral high ground then we should walk the talk.

There are people who are above what should be objective law and I, for one, am tired of it. Not that THAT matters.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the rest of the trash should be held accountable for what they allowed.

But let's just keep on singing Jingo Bells while this country is turned into a mockery of what it should be.

Oh, what fun!
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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So, the ones you're tired of being above the law are the ones with (R)'s after their names. Shocking!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
So, the ones you're tired of being above the law are the ones with (R)'s after their names. Shocking!


No, I'm tired of ANYONE being above objective law.

Why does everyone think I'm a Democrat?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
acesover
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.


No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law. Not even Khan.

I agree.


Do you also agree that Mr Khan could be lying?


Why would anyone believe someone like Mr. Khan would be lying? (sarcasm) Of course he cold be lying. I would wager he is not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. How much he is lying is the question.

I have to ask. Who do you believe Kahn or his captors? Also I would like to ask, and this is important. Who do you WANT to believe?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.


No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law. Not even Khan.

I agree.


Do you also agree that Mr Khan could be lying?


Why would anyone believe someone like Mr. Khan would be lying? (sarcasm) Of course he cold be lying. I would wager he is not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. How much he is lying is the question.

I have to ask. Who do you believe Kahn or his captors? Also I would like to ask, and this is important. Who do you WANT to believe?


This is the difference between us Ace. I have no agenda except to know the truth, so that is what I want. The absolute truth, if it's even possible to know the truth anymore.

I know I'm naive in that I still believe in justice. If Mr. Khan is guilty of what he was accused of he should pay, and vice versa.

No exceptions.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
acesover
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.


No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law. Not even Khan.

I agree.


Do you also agree that Mr Khan could be lying?


Why would anyone believe someone like Mr. Khan would be lying? (sarcasm) Of course he cold be lying. I would wager he is not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. How much he is lying is the question.

I have to ask. Who do you believe Kahn or his captors? Also I would like to ask, and this is important. Who do you WANT to believe?


This is the difference between us Ace. I have no agenda except to know the truth, so that is what I want. The absolute truth, if it's even possible to know the truth anymore.

I know I'm naive in that I still believe in justice. If Mr. Khan is guilty of what he was accused of he should pay, and vice versa.

No exceptions.


We all want the truth.

You did not answer my question as to who you WANT to believe. You must want to believe one or the other. Would you rather it be the people working for The United States or would you rather it be Khan who is working to destroy the United States? A simple question.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Interesting that neither of your questions was "Is this true?"


They've admitted to torture, all good the "greater good" of course. I think they would have admitted to the least they could get away with admitting, so I think it's true.

This is sick on so many levels. Even if only partially true nothing could justify it.

No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law.


No one should be unaccountable. No one should be above the law. Not even Khan.

I agree.


Do you also agree that Mr Khan could be lying?


Why would anyone believe someone like Mr. Khan would be lying? (sarcasm) Of course he cold be lying. I would wager he is not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. How much he is lying is the question.

I have to ask. Who do you believe Kahn or his captors? Also I would like to ask, and this is important. Who do you WANT to believe?


This is the difference between us Ace. I have no agenda except to know the truth, so that is what I want. The absolute truth, if it's even possible to know the truth anymore.

I know I'm naive in that I still believe in justice. If Mr. Khan is guilty of what he was accused of he should pay, and vice versa.

No exceptions.


We all want the truth.

You did not answer my question as to who you WANT to believe. You must want to believe one or the other. Would you rather it be the people working for The United States or would you rather it be Khan who is working to destroy the United States? A simple question.


Again the difference between us comes shining through.

You say I MUST WANT to believe one or the other. I don't.

I want to KNOW the actual truth.

Your simple question is not so simple because it assumes that both parties can't be guilty.

You say that Mr. Khan was working to destroy the U.S.
Well, maybe he was, and he should pay for his crimes, as I said.

You say that the CIA works to protect the U.S.
Well, I say that anyone who would do what they're accused of does not, and cannot, represent what this country is supposed to stand for, and if they are guilty they should also pay.
The torturers and those that ordered the torture, as well as those who stood by.

Not so simple, but the fact that its complicated doesn't change the fact that the truth needs to be known.

The actual truth. Not what anyone someone wants to be real.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
tommy
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Don’t be so silly! That sort of thinking is not allowed. You are either with is or against us.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2015, tommy wrote:
Don’t be so silly! That sort of thinking is not allowed. You are either with is or against us.


The one thing that our Overlords don't take into consideration is that some of us don't give a flying fucck as to what thinking is allowed.

As far as silly is concerned......I make balloons for a living, so it comes with the territory.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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