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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Trouble with Ponta's Winged Silver. Question about vanishes (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

ddamen
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I have two questions. For sake of not cluttering the forum I will combine them

1) What is your favorite resource for advanced coin vanishes? Beyond the regular thumb palm, finger palm, french drop, etc. Are there any particularly creative books or videos that illustrate other techniques, or at least offer tips and new approaches to the classic vanishes?

2) I am pulling my hair out trying to master a particular move in Ponta's Winged Silver routine. It is the way he displays 4 coins as 3, or 3 as 2. The video says to grip the ****d coin with two fingers. However, when does he actually grip it? Does he grip it before or after closing his hand? Does anyone who is having nearly 100% success have any tips or tricks for getting this move down? I would argue it is the essential lynchpin sleight of the effect, yet I simply cannot get a knack for it (and obviously not at Ponta's speed). If he is actually gripping the correct coin on the initial spread, then closing his hand, maintaing the grip, and revealing the "vanish"...then dear god, this man is special.

I gotta say, in this age where everyone needs the latest coin gaff, it is inspiring to see a magician floor others with purely sleight of hand

Thanks for the thoughts guys
Michael Rubinstein
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Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights has over 100 coin moves and many retention techniques and vanishes you should learn, including R.O.P.S.
Available at dealers EVERYWHERE - RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! Already called a Modern Classic!!
And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used in the book.
Zephury
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Hollywood, FL
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I'm happy to see more magicians apply themselves to do non-gaffed coin magic. I love Ponta's material and I think it's great you're working on his material. It can certainly be challenging.

Coin Vanishes...
The Retention is my go-to coin vanish for just about EVERYTHING. The only time when I use a different vanish is when there are multiple vanishes back-to-back, so I'll mix it up with French Drops and other things like you've mentioned. Personally the best text explanation I've found on the Retention Vanish is on this website: coinvanish.com
The best video reference is going to be from David Roth, in MY opinion.

The Coin Display.
I may do it slightly different than Ponta... when I close my hand, I put the coins in position for the display to where the bottom most coin is in line with the pointer and ring finger in the correct position as Ponta shows it in the video.It's in the act of opening my hand that I begin trying to grip the coin second from the bottom to maintain it's place. Then I use my thumb to push the coins above it out, one at a time while I'm opening my hand. Ponta's is awesome how he can just open his hand and let the coins fall in to place. I can do it that way too but it's not as sure fire as the other way I just mentioned. I don't let the coins fall, I just slide them out with my thumb. It's easier for me to make sure I get the same result every time. Try it out and tell me how it works for you!

Good luck. If you need any further assistance, feel free to PM me. I also have Skype and would be happy to show you on camera some time how to do a few of the moves if you have any trouble. Just let me know!
funsway
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Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Certainly learn the Schneider Basic Vanish and the theory thereof.

This can be applied to many other vanishes besides POV.

Also, most popular vanishes are of the "Fake" variety in that the coin is only apparently placed in the receiving hand.

There are also techniques for a "False" transfer in which the coin is actually placed in the receiving hand but later secreted out.

Then there are "Pseudo" transfers in which no coin is ever in play at all.

I mention these to indicate that there is no "best place" to find what you seek, and these methods are rarely collected in a book or DVD.

Imagine the result the wish to achieve and work backwards -- "result" being what you wish the observer to remember.

Just wanting to be different is usually not enough
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
ddamen
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----Rubinstein: Usually I'm annoyed at magicians self-promoting, but it was justified here. You hit the nail on the head! I just placed an order as your encyclopedia sounds like a great resource

----Zephury: Thank so much for the website link; that has a treasure trove of information. Who created it? The video/book suggestions and text descriptions are dense and will keep me busy for a while. I started with the text description of the retention vanish and it definitely gave me new things to thing about. Devil is in the details

Without knowing it, I have been infrequently implementing your technique for Ponta's display. However as you already said, it just doesn't have the image of Ponta's handling. The fact that he just casually displays the coins in one hand in one motion, with no thumb work, really sells it. It is so much more convincing when the coins naturally fall down the fingers. This reasoning also applies the following move. He simply finger palms and drops the others naturally, with absolutely no thumb work or fidgeting. It's amazing. I will absolutely take you up on some Skype time, but after I am at a more advanced stage and can benefit more from your tips.

----Funsway: Yeah I did not even consider False or Pseudo transfers when I started this thread. Wise words, I may be putting cart before the horse. As I pass through Rubenstein's encyclopedia and Zephury's material, I will take your advice and think more concretely about what effects I ultimately want to master as my "reputation makers." Rereading my original post, it does sound awfully like those little kid magicians that are obsessed with the latest gaff but have paid little attention to what routines they ultimate want to perform.


Thank you again guys and any others that follow
Michael Rubinstein
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Ddamen, L&L owns the rights to the Encyclopedia, I recommend it not because I filmed it, but because its a good resource, as is the NYCMS dvd series. Usually the material in one or the other provides the answer to questions posted on this forum, or demonstrates a routine asked for.
Available at dealers EVERYWHERE - RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! Already called a Modern Classic!!
And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used in the book.
ddamen
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Thanks for explaining the current legality behind Encyclopedia. The NYCMS looks great; I saw it mentioned on the "coinvanish" website. I will definitely pick that up once I've given enough time to your Encyclopedia
CarpetShark
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Speaking of Doc Rubinstein and RoVs, have a look as his R.O.P.S move. In my opinion, it's one of (if not THE) top retention moves. Not easy, at least for me, but well worth it as it is one of those moves that seem impossible.
ddamen
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Yes I just saw the "Three Retention Vanishes" video that Michael posted on youtube. Can't wait til my DVD arrives so I can start studying his mechanics
vinsmagic
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Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
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THE ONLY GAFF COIN I USES IS A COPPER SLIVER ONE////
BUT I Repeat THE WORDS OF STEVE DUSHECK ,A GAFF INCORPORATED WITH SLIGHT OF HAND IS THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS VINNY
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
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