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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Ken Dyne tonight at Penguin (19 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Alex Tan
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Loved the lecture, absolutely brilliant, learned so much.

Met Ken a few times, even went to the safari with him and checked out bats, knew he was clever, just didn't know he was this clever Smile
phillsmiff
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K's lecture was just brilliant, I had it on yesterday whilst I was working and in the end I had to stop working and just watch it. Fun practical material, road tested and full of personality, I really enjoyed it.

Phill
Now available to preorder, the incredible new DMC ELITES V5 deck, our biggest leap yet.
-+: https://store.dmcmagic.com/products/dmc-elites-v5 :+-
sjdavison
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Lovely chap too, he mentioned this to me recently so will have to look to get this too.

Good work mate, sure it's top notch as usual!

Simon
Simon, 32, UK



www.sidavisonmagic.com
MVoss
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I loved the lecture as well, certainly didn't pull punches. I do want to take a look at Bairn now, as I'm sure it will be a great read.
Robb
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It is a great lecture. I like that Ken addresses some real issues with mentalism these days... the "fictional" brand of mentalism, i.e., routines and methods that don't work in the real world. I have my suspicions about which purveyors of mentalism products Ken is alluding to, but naming names would just open up a huge can of worms... Instead, I would just urge you to take Ken's advice and PERFORM and learn for yourself what works with real world audiences and what is just pipe dreams.
MVoss
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Quote:
On Jun 18, 2015, Robb wrote:
It is a great lecture. I like that Ken addresses some real issues with mentalism these days... the "fictional" brand of mentalism, i.e., routines and methods that don't work in the real world. I have my suspicions about which purveyors of mentalism products Ken is alluding to, but naming names would just open up a huge can of worms... Instead, I would just urge you to take Ken's advice and PERFORM and learn for yourself what works with real world audiences and what is just pipe dreams.


I do wish during the interview they had talked about this a little more, but he certainly said enough in the lecture.
Ken Dyne
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Thank you all so much for the kind words and support.

As my first time teaching on video in this way I was really nervous about how it would all turn out.

Regarding my very strong opinions that I shared, I didn't want to take over the whole lecture with a 'State of Mentalism Address' as most people just want me to teach the next trick, so I said my piece, but hope I made it clear about my position on the appalling actions of a small group of people who are filling our small community with hype and lies.

The most frustrating part of it all is the lies and the teaching of false methods. By which I mean, they will perform an effect having pre-showed (and more often simply stooging) people, then in the explanations they give some wild fantasy of a method that sounds beautiful and magical to us.

When people pay us to teach our methods, we should be true and honest and teach them.

I've heard excuses from these performers that the reason they do this is t guarantee their outcome for the lecture. I'm sure most of us can see through this as an obvious excuse. At the end of the day, if your method is real and you can do it then why would you even consider using stooges. Unless of course your method is either bogus, or highly unreliable of course.

And if unreliable then you should be as confident in your 'outs' as you claim to be when giving your explanation.

It's hypocrisy and worse, it's feeding mis-information in order to give hope to people, in exchange for great profit.

Which bears many hallmarks of cult building.
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
Sean Giles
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I like your honesty a lot. I think most of us know this too but I've only heard it talked about in private conversations before now. It's wrong on many levels and it's good to see someone like yourself condemn it.
george1953
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Very well said, its just too easy for anyone to publish a book or put out a DVD. It used to be that you had to submit your ideas to a magic dealer and they would determine if it was worthy of publication.
This way the crap and friends hyping a product up was kept at bay to a certain extent.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
SolidSnake
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Anyone that lectures and gives a fake method should be named and shamed and done for fraud. I hope such a reputable place as penguin are not putting up with it. I'm sure they will let their customers know!
There is no holy grail!
tmoca
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Quote:
On Jun 21, 2015, Clel-Mentalist wrote:
Anyone that lectures and gives a fake method should be named and shamed and done for fraud. I hope such a reputable place as penguin are not putting up with it. I'm sure they will let their customers know!


Agree 100%
Tim Cavendish
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Quote:
On Jun 21, 2015, Ken Dyne wrote:
The most frustrating part of it all is the lies and the teaching of false methods. By which I mean, they will perform an effect having pre-showed (and more often simply stooging) people, then in the explanations they give some wild fantasy of a method that sounds beautiful and magical to us.

On the surface this sounds like a strong position, but without naming names or pointing to specific instances it doesn't communicate useful information to your audience.

Maybe it could be explored in more depth in your podcast.
phillsmiff
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I think that for people in the community, or who are familiar with the market, it is pretty clear what and who K is talking about - bear in mind that to name specific names is not only 'politically' awkward, but opens up the potential for libel, the UK being notorious for having the most stupid and punitive libel laws in the world.

Phill
Now available to preorder, the incredible new DMC ELITES V5 deck, our biggest leap yet.
-+: https://store.dmcmagic.com/products/dmc-elites-v5 :+-
Robb
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Phill is exactly right. Neither Ken nor any of us would benefit from singling out any particular guy(s), but the point is that we should be aware of the difference between real world mentalism and pipe dream methods.
Ken Dyne
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I would love to name and shame but I'm not able to.

Can I also confirm that I'm not talking about Penguin, the people I'm speaking of have spread their lies and fraud further than that. My experience with Penguin is that they are a stand up establishment who work hard to produce great quality magic, and they're passionate about doing so.
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
MVoss
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I guess it comes down to the old, if it is too good to be true type thing.
Sean Giles
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We've all seen these 'too good to be true' effects on lectures, interviews and such. I've twice personally seen 2 different very well known mentalists attribute false methods (that they invented) when clearly they were using traditional methods and in one case stooging.

I saw a well known creator get called out on it in a lecture in front of 100 peers. Someone shouted 'BS' (not the abbreviation) which is what the room was thinking and it was a very awkward moment.
IAIN
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Eternal Order
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Seems a shame really to talk in stage whispers online (if that's possible), I mean, I can guess from what some of you guys have said here...but! I might be wrong, and you guys are talking about others...so now I have a false idea I my head about people because I've read this...

Either have an open and honest discussion about it, or keep it festering behind closed doors I guess...its a shame though...
I've asked to be banned
Ken Dyne
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I don't want this thread to turn off topic. Sincerely, I hope you enjoyed my lecture on Penguin and it gave you an opportunity to see some of the ideas you've read about (and some that you have not) on their feet so you can see how my ideas fit in to my personality, and perhaps give you a basis of understanding for why I create the way I do.

Plus, I hope you laughed a couple of times too Smile
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
Tim Cavendish
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Quote:
On Jun 22, 2015, Sean Giles wrote:
We've all seen these 'too good to be true' effects on lectures, interviews and such. I've twice personally seen 2 different very well known mentalists attribute false methods (that they invented) when clearly they were using traditional methods and in one case stooging.

I saw a well known creator get called out on it in a lecture in front of 100 peers. Someone shouted 'BS' (not the abbreviation) which is what the room was thinking and it was a very awkward moment.


These are specific, factual instances which can be described, even while omitting performers' names. What sort of effects were these?
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