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Lloyd Barnes
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On Jun 26, 2015, Magic.Maddy wrote:
So wait... It's being shipped on the 28th of this month? That is a Sunday.

The 28th of NEXT MONTH is a Tuesday.

So this will be shipped out on Sunday this weekend? (Even though the post is closed) or it will be shipped out Tuesday a month from now? I was under the impression that it was this weekend.

There was a brief error on the site because of times zones and dates. It's now corrected. These will begin shipping Monday the 30th of this month. Basically, 3 days from now.
Magic.Maddy
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On Jun 26, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 26, 2015, Magic.Maddy wrote:
So wait... It's being shipped on the 28th of this month? That is a Sunday.

The 28th of NEXT MONTH is a Tuesday.

So this will be shipped out on Sunday this weekend? (Even though the post is closed) or it will be shipped out Tuesday a month from now? I was under the impression that it was this weekend.

There was a brief error on the site because of times zones and dates. It's now corrected. These will begin shipping Monday the 30th of this month. Basically, 3 days from now.


Fantastic! I have been wondering about it for a while now. I imagined that was the case, thank you for confirming Smile

Super stoked.
Fin
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On Jun 26, 2015, robd wrote:
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On Jun 26, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:

Sometimes I do question why I release things when I read posts from the pessimists in this world but the overwhelming positivity from everyone else makes it all worth it.


Don't be a baby. This is the real world - people question things and have opinions. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, and sometimes their opinions are not the same as yours. It's not like you release these things out of the goodness of your heart; you do it because you make money from it, and run a business. You just turned over nearly $30k in 29 hours and you're complaining about a few posts on a magic forum because they weren't to your liking. FFS.


Amen to that! The hype is way over the top in my humble opinion and it was obvious right from the get-go due to the language used in the emails I have received (so far). "The last color change you'll ever need". Yeah, ok. Except that I don't "need" nor desire to be taking gimmicks everywhere, every time I want to perform card magic, thanks very much, so even if it was the best color change I've ever seen it certainly wouldn't be the last one I'd ever "need". So whether or not the angles are practical, and whether or not one has to have certain lighting conditions, I will be quite happy sticking to my repertoire of perfectly practical, gimmickless color changes that are tried and tested and floor people every time.

The stream of hype and subsequent emails updating you AGAIN on how "life changing" it is and how "It blew-up the magic industry yesterday" might work for teenagers who aren't yet tired of excessive marketing techniques, but I for one find it really tacky and off-putting. It's just another gimmick, and I'm sure some people will use it to great effect, like so many other cool gimmicks out there already. Good luck to everyone who buys it and I hope it's enjoyable to use and gets you good reactions. But surprised? Proud.. that it sold out so quickly? Pull the other one. The hype and the over-the-top marketing strategies are why it sold so fast. With emails like that you could sell toenail clippings at the same frenetic pace!

I think that perhaps someone went on one of those marketing & nlp weekend lecture courses or something, because the language and marketing techniques being used in this email spamathon are transparent, cringe-worthy and over the top. I wouldn't touch this one with a barge pole purely for that reason, and I think the effect is underwhelming if you have any idea whatsoever about how it most likely works. "Revolutionary" it most certainly is not. Anyone over 30 will probably think its heat-generated or something similar, like those temperature strips mums used to have, and although they may well be wrong in their assumptions, as others have already pointed out; with the card being the main effect, the chances of being able to clean up with a dl and not have some serious suspicion to deal with are high, whether your audience management is great or not.

That said, as with many similar tricks, perform this for a crowd of half-drunk twenty-somethings and I'm sure there'll be time to ditch the gimmick without much of a problem. So overall, good luck, it looks great, but enough already with the o.t.t. marketing and the sulky "Sometimes I do question why I release things when I read posts from the pessimists". With the hype at the level you have chosen, OF COURSE there is going to be debate about the method. With the irritating marketing involved, OF COURSE there will be pessimism. Welcome to the real world. And btw, if it works the way I think it works (someone mentioned it earlier), then the animation on the buy page on Ellusionist, showing it sitting on a table changing all by itself, would be misleading and dishonest. I hope I'm wrong.
Kabbalah
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"The last color change you'll ever need"

Until Change 2.0
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
Chessmann
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There are plenty of ways to use these without giving away the farm. There's a color changing deck effect I'm thinking of that would really be kicked up a notch with this. Like the Svengali Deck, generally the more subtle the use, the better. The trailer is good in this respect as it gives you a clear picture of that the effect does.

"And btw, if it works the way I think it works (someone mentioned it earlier), then the animation on the buy page on Ellusionist, showing it sitting on a table changing all by itself, would be misleading and dishonest. I hope I'm wrong."

Interesting. I went back and looked at that - dishonest marketing didn't occur to me on that score. Just a pic of the product is how I read it, like how it might of been in a catalog.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Magic.Maddy
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I agree. The images are clearly animated just to show what that particular gimmick does. I like that feature, actually. It's helpful and provides a nice visual representation of what the description is saying.


I am still super excited about this. I was quite certain I knew the method the moment I saw the trailer, but that just excited me even more! I think the visuals are INCREDIBLE. As they have said, it looks like real magic. It really does look like a camera effect. I haven't been this excited about an effect in a while.

It has nothing to do with the hype (which I do find annoying at times.) It has to do with the potential the gimmicks have. I can't wait to have the gimmicks in my hand. I know it will be great and well tested by Lloyd. I trust him.
oliversmith
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I have known Lloyd for quite a few years and was very lucky to see the early stages of this idea. It's clear he has put lots of time and effort into every aspect of this project.

I personally prefer the angel moving across than the red to blue change. It looks insane in real life.
GeraintClarke
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It's sold out for the second time. Sorry to all those who didn't get a chance to buy this yet.


- G
VMagical
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I guess I'll wait for volume 2 lol.. or if anything comes up in the for sale section.
Calvin826
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As somebody who has many years experience in the specialty printing business, I'm pretty sure I know what this is. If I am correct, I'm wondering how normal the gimmicks look in real life.

Also- at what point does it appear that the magic is not coming from the performer, but a mysterious prop? And is that a good thing?
Chessmann
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On Jun 27, 2015, Calvin826 wrote:
Also- at what point does it appear that the magic is not coming from the performer, but a mysterious prop? And is that a good thing?


Every audience knows that the source of the magic is either the magician or the prop. How that is managed to best effect is the resposibility of the magician.

A good performer can use a Svengali Deck without the audience ever suspecting it is a tricked up deck.

Assuming good quality and functionality, I think this is a very good thing.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
magic_tony
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On Jun 27, 2015, Calvin826 wrote:
As somebody who has many years experience in the specialty printing business, I'm pretty sure I know what this is. If I am correct, I'm wondering how normal the gimmicks look in real life.

Also- at what point does it appear that the magic is not coming from the performer, but a mysterious prop? And is that a good thing?


Indeed. I posted similar thoughts earlier. I wonder if the red/blue color of the gimmicked card is a perfect match for regular cards. The eye notices such things very easily.
There is no way that slow color change of the card will be attributed to anything other than a 'special card' in the spectator's minds, as clever as it may be.

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On Jun 27, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
A good performer can use a Svengali Deck without the audience ever suspecting it is a tricked up deck.


That is very true, but if you did the equivalent of the slow color change with the Svengali desk i.e. riffle the cards to show all different then immediately riffle to show them all the same, that just shouts 'clever prop'.

I'm not being negative about this new gimmicked card, I just think it's going to be more of a toy for magicians to play with than something that will 'change the face of magic'! (not that there's anything wrong with with new toys).

Ellusionist have just provided a master lesson in marketing. Almost $60,000 revenue in a few days. 2000 products sold on the back of a 720p video with no real world footage, as well as leaving many unanswered questions. Genius!
Calvin826
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I wonder if you can ditch the Change gimmick using the Gonzo gimmick which itself is attached to a Raven that disappears into a topit.
pegasus
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On Jun 27, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:
It's sold out for the second time. Sorry to all those who didn't get a chance to buy this yet.


- G

This is a joke right? This is magic marketing at its lowest ebb. I'd rather pre order 'killer red caps' than this.
Magic.Maddy
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I really don't understand all of the hostility that is being exhibited towards this effect...


I completely disagree with everyone saying that people will use contribute the magic to a special card. When people think of Magic, this is the kind of thing they imagine (thanks to all the movies with wizards and magic and etc.) This is the kind of visual madness people would expect REAL magic to look like. I'm pumped about it still despite the various extremely negative comments that don't seem to be backed up with anything of substance.
Chessmann
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Its all about who's hands it is in.

Bob Kohler a number of years back took Killer Red Caps and just for fun surprised a lot of people with it.

Honestly, I don't care about the marketing. I've seen a LOT worse than this. There's something about this that tells me I can use this, even if the angles are quite limited. There's also something I like about the lack of travel space the card needs in order to fully execute the change. That bodes well for some other things running through my mind. But until we have it in hand....

Magic-tony wrote:

"That is very true, but if you did the equivalent of the slow color change with the Svengali desk i.e. riffle the cards to show all different then immediately riffle to show them all the same, that just shouts 'clever prop'."

Yes, this is exactly the point I was making (though I may not have made it too well!). Using a tool in a very obvious way vs. using it in a subtle way. Work the tool to maximize the effect while minimizing the possible negatives (i.e., showing the Svengali Deck all the same - with apologies to Mr. Lewis Smile ).
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Calvin826
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On Jun 27, 2015, Magic.Maddy wrote:. This is the kind of visual madness people would expect REAL magic to look like. I'm pumped about it still despite the various extremely negative comments that don't seem to be backed up with anything of substance.


Respectfully Maddy, restrictions on exposure in this forum may be the reason for lack of substance, as you put it. Let me put it this way....
Assuming that this is achieved with LP techniques(most likely), the 'visual madness' that you speak of exists only in the demo, because:

A. No way the gimmicks look anything close to natural/normal.

B. The visual madness would only be apparent to those viewing from a very particular angle. Better be prepared to hold the card frozen in the vertical, slightly backward tilted position until everyone walks away. Putting it back on the deck, or handling the card casually might cause the 'change' to reverse itself.

C. As I recall, they don't show the get ready for the headphone trick. Most likely because it involves an extremely awkward and unnatural bit of fiddling. And if you don't think that people would insist on examining the gimmick, well what can I say. Good luck with that.

Again, all this conjecture on my part, as I do not own this item. If I'm wrong, perhaps somebody who knows better will set me straight.
Chessmann
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On Jun 27, 2015, Calvin826 wrote:

A. No way the gimmicks look anything close to natural/normal.


Interesting. To me, I have to say the gimmick looked very normal in the trailer. Are you thinking in a particular context? What many are curious about is whether or not it will legitimately match normal cards. Maybe yes, maybe no, but (for me) there are still lots of possibilities for use.


Quote:
B. The visual madness would only be apparent to those viewing from a very particular angle. Better be prepared to hold the card frozen in the vertical, slightly backward tilted position until everyone walks away. Putting it back on the deck, or handling the card casually might cause the 'change' to reverse itself.


Right, but we don't know what those angles are, to this point, nor do we know how changing angles may or may not effect a change for those viewing. Using your example above, if the card is oriented correctly after the change, putting it back on the deck in its new color would not change a thing. My thinking is along these lines (not as an effect): gimmick is on top of the deck, deck face down. Turn the deck end for end, then turn the deck over along the long edges. Top card is now a different color, and will remain so at most angles and depths. The change 'range' is very small, and at most angles the card will appear as one or the other. I could be wrong, of course, this is just how it seems to me.


Quote:
C. As I recall, they don't show the get ready for the headphone trick. Most likely because it involves an extremely awkward and unnatural bit of fiddling. And if you don't think that people would insist on examining the gimmick, well what can I say. Good luck with that.


There are many ways of overcoming this, are there not?

Many effects have restrictions (IET and lighting come to mind). Just depends on the payoff. We'll see after the 28th!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Magic.Maddy
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On Jun 27, 2015, Calvin826 wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2015, Magic.Maddy wrote:. This is the kind of visual madness people would expect REAL magic to look like. I'm pumped about it still despite the various extremely negative comments that don't seem to be backed up with anything of substance.


Respectfully Maddy, restrictions on exposure in this forum may be the reason for lack of substance, as you put it. Let me put it this way....
Assuming that this is achieved with LP techniques(most likely), the 'visual madness' that you speak of exists only in the demo, because:

A. No way the gimmicks look anything close to natural/normal.

B. The visual madness would only be apparent to those viewing from a very particular angle. Better be prepared to hold the card frozen in the vertical, slightly backward tilted position until everyone walks away. Putting it back on the deck, or handling the card casually might cause the 'change' to reverse itself.

C. As I recall, they don't show the get ready for the headphone trick. Most likely because it involves an extremely awkward and unnatural bit of fiddling. And if you don't think that people would insist on examining the gimmick, well what can I say. Good luck with that.

Again, all this conjecture on my part, as I do not own this item. If I'm wrong, perhaps somebody who knows better will set me straight.



Nope! The lack of substance I'm referring to are your comments clearly knocking a product which hasn't even been shipped yet.

A. There is absolutely a way the gimmicks look normal. Just as normal as they do on video. I am not at all concerned with the "normality" of the gimmicks.

B. I understand their may be restrictions with angles. I'm totally okay with that. To me the visual is worth the slight audience management which is necessary. I have complete faith that Lloyd has thought about how to clean up, I can easily think of ways that would not cause the change to 'reverse' itself. It's sad if you can't.

C. They practically show the get ready for the headphones. If you pay attention, you can see exactly how the setup would or could be achieved. In the action of going from an eye level position to a waist level position, the move could be done. What makes you think it would be awkward, unnatural and fiddly?

I'm aware people will want to examine the gimmicks just like how they want to examine almost every gimmick I own... It's the ability to give them the gimmick to examine. With a simple switch, everything can be examined which will add to the mystery.


I'm pretty sure I know what I'm getting with this. I'm prepared to have the right angle and I'm prepared to switch the gimmicks. I'm excited about getting this. If it's what I think it is, great! If it isn't, great! I will find a place for it.

The only way this could be a problem is if the gimmicks are just awful and I don't expect that to be the case with Ellusionist or Lloyd.

Again, I'm still not understanding the negativity.
Calvin826
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Thanks for the reply, Chessman.

When I was a kid I remember that sometimes you would get one of these gimmicks in a pack of baseball cards, and you could easily tell it wasn't a normal card. Granted, the workings might be better camouflaged by the intricate art on the back of a bicycle card, but I would think lighting would still be a concern.
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