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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » CHANGE over @ Ellusionist (273 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TuneHV
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Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuImhGEAsnk

here are the live performances...
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Magic.Maddy
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Yay. Good for you Lloyd Smile I'm still loving mine.
robwar0100
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I was excited when I saw the live video performances, so I busted out my Change, and I am even more disappointed. I have to hold my gimmicked color-changing card at about a 45-degree angle to get a somewhat decent-looking red back. I sat and worked on it with different lighting conditions, different angles, and it just left me saddened. I already accepted the fact that I was going to eat this $35 (cost plus shipping), but the live performances gave me renewed hope, only to see them dashed.

I am not going to give up, but I just feel like a fool for buying into the hype.

It's a shame the giant penny wasn't an English penny.

Like I said before, good thinking, but just poor execution.

Bobby

p.s. I don't know Lloyd, but I think he is a stand-up guy for addressing the issue head-on in the video. Just wish my Change actually worked as good as advertised or I could manipulate it to be as good as advertised.
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
barts185
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Quote:
On Jul 20, 2015, TuneHV wrote:
Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuImhGEAsnk

here are the live performances...


Are there going to be performances of the other effects, or just the color change?
GeraintClarke
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Quote:
On Jul 20, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
A good 70% of people jumping in to complain here are just here on this thread to add fuel to the fire and don't own change.


As I previously stated, I question this, but even if it were true, what would it change? There were lots of people who commeted in this topic (and 2 others) that didn't like "Change". That's business - a product comes out, followed by reviews, and people buy more or buy less based on those reviews. "Change" is getting poor marks from its owners. There are non-owners commenting (this is a chat forum, after all), but many of these comments have been about pre-ordering, Ellusionists (inconsistent) ethics, etc...

But while some people have gone into great and specific detail regarding their negative feelings toward "Change," you seem more intent on blaming others (just as one of the staff at Ellusionist forums did...I guess the brain trust at E have decided that this will be their stock answer: blame others). Lloyd has yet to challenge any of the reviews, but this is not surprising. Once again, what can he possibly say?


Chessman, you seem to be intent on picking apart every line from my response, and then responding to your own commentary on it.

You didn't like it on Day 1. You asked for a refund on Day 1. We granted you that refund on Day 1... but instead, you've spent the last 2 weeks !@#$%ing about a trick that you should of sent back to the team to get your money back on? That's great customer service...... If I buy a pair of jeans that I didn't feel were blue-enough, and I took them back, and the company gave me a refund. I wouldn't harbour any animosity to waste 2 weeks of my time moaning about it. Where you're concerned, the CS team at E have done their best with you. If you're still not pleased after being offered the opportunity to get your money back, then there is nothing more we can do.
Lloyd Barnes
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Woah... so I go to FISM in Italy and all hell breaks loose on here. I haven't been through every post but the general consensus seems to be that people don't think this can be done live. As promised I got some time to film some live street performances with a range of different people (including some that couldn't speak English) to show you all just how practical and fun to perform this is.

Again, this is simply one of those tricks where you have to give more effort but if you want to elevate your magic, then sometimes you have to. For me, I'm not a magician that likes to let my prop do the work. I like to apply myself 100% to my magic. Not saying that anybody here doesn't already but I'm hoping that the proof in the live performances here urges people to go out and do this.

The true reality is that even though this has all gone a bit mental here we've only had very small number of complaints to us at Ellusionist, mostly all of them from the Café. So although it's only a small minority, it has been a very vocal one here at the Café and I didn't want to sit back and ignore anyone.

So, here's the video with live performances and also some answers to a few questions we've had. No doubt that there's going to be more negativity here but that's the nature Café unfortunately. I've been out and filmed real live performances of this to show you guys exactly what this plays like in the real world. I can't do anymore than that. (unless I go do your gigs for you.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuImhGEAsnk

Luckily for the people that were willing to make their own minds up to go out and perform this, this witch hunt hasn't detoured them. And thus, the large majority have enjoyed Change and I want to say thank you the hundreds of people that have emailed, messaged, posted, tagged etc through every social platform they can contact me on. A simple look through any of my public accounts will show this.

I've noticed that Chessman is at the helm of this thread making the majority of the posts. I totally understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting to "stop others making the same mistake that you did", however there comes a point where you were one of our only customers to ask for a refunded (which we did immediately) then you spent the next two weeks continually making post after post on the Café ripping apart anything to do with Change, there comes a point where it goes from trying to warn some customers to becoming an out an out troll. Nothing is going to change your mind on this topic, everyone on this entire thread can see that, however and as arrogant as this sound, you are the minority. I see that others have posted their concerns too, that is great! Honest opinions are always welcomed but when it's the same person tirelessly on the attack it all goes a bit stale. I 100% stand behind my work on Change and am incredibly proud of how it turned out and the general response to it from around the world, I do though try to make time for as many people as possible and I feel that you feel incredibly wronged by myself and Ellusionist so I'd love to take some time to talk with you personally to see if there's a way to right this or at least find some common ground. Magic should be a brotherhood and the thought of anyone feeling so angry towards one and other really gets to me.

I spend most of my time travelling for work so as always I'm incredibly busy but I will try and get back on here at some point. Please though, I'm much easier to contact directly through email, Facebook or Skype so if you have any genuine concerns or questions, please feel free to get in touch.


Cheers,
Lloyd
Creative & Project Development at Ellusionist

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Fatgumbo
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I think Cheeseman has nothing better to do in his spare time.
Markymark
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Maybe a few of us do!
I thank Chessman for saving me some money and hassle.
He does seem angry but should a refund [minus postage] be 'hush money'
I hope the company does things differently for it's next release even if it's only a pretty deck of cards!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Robmonster
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Why should the fact that a refund was offered change his opinion on the product?
Lloyd Barnes
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, Markymark wrote:
Maybe a few of us do!
I thank Chessman for saving me some money and hassle.
He does seem angry but should a refund [minus postage] be 'hush money'
I hope the company does things differently for it's next release even if it's only a pretty deck of cards!

Absolutely not "hush money". We encourage people to be open, honest and vocal about our products but there is a difference between posting your thoughts and going on a fortnight long tireless campaign against something. This is why I'd rather speak with him personally to try and find any sort of common ground or resolution.
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robwar0100
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This is from the packaging:

Change
5 Visual Miracles
That Will Change Your Life

Indeed, my life has been changed, but not for the better. Wallet is lighter with nothing to show for it.

I continue to pull out the gimmicks and practice, but all for naught. I cannot get the red to look good, though the blue jumps out perfectly.

The gimmick is so touchy, there is no way to know what the spectator is seeing. What I am seeing looks terrible with all of my handlings.



Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
RNK
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, Markymark wrote:
Maybe a few of us do!
I thank Chessman for saving me some money and hassle.
He does seem angry but should a refund [minus postage] be 'hush money'
I hope the company does things differently for it's next release even if it's only a pretty deck of cards!

Absolutely not "hush money". We encourage people to be open, honest and vocal about our products but there is a difference between posting your thoughts and going on a fortnight long tireless campaign against something. This is why I'd rather speak with him personally to try and find any sort of common ground or resolution.


There is a difference. But if you guys would have come on here to address the comments in a timely manner there may have been not such an overwhelming uprising. Sorry Lloyd, but you can't say you were to busy to come on here and take 5 minutes to address these comments. Your "To Busy" remark doesn't sit well. MANY of us are to busy but find time. I have a full time job, perform many gigs a year and raise three boys. But I can find 5 minutes here and there. And you trying to say that a minority was dissatisfied? There are not many products here on the café that get such bad reviews as CHANGE did.

Now, maybe you have a small valid point about working with the gimmick. That is true with a lot of gimmicks. But an overwhelming majority here say that even the gimmicks are poorly made. Now, that's a different manner.

I didn't want to post my thoughts but MAN UP and quit trying to give excuses of why you couldn't come on here and face the music. That's a cop out IMO. Excuses are like AssH&^les, everyone has one and they all stink.
RNK
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Sorry Lloyd for my previous post, you seem to be a good person. But when people make excuses rather than Man Up- that ticks me off.
Xcath1
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I did not purchase this so although I can not comment on its practicality I know how it works as do most adults. It actually seems like a pretty cute idea but not for me.
I am going to say I don't think "grown ups" should be so angry about the hype machine. It is a part of life and for better or worse business.
I am afraid to say if you were expecting a product that would "change" your life and it didn't, then you learned a fairly inexpensive lesson.
I feel a little worse for young people who may live and die by the "hype machine" who may be spending their own or their parents limited resources to learn these lessons about just how many "life changing" products are out there
Develop a filter
At any rate, moving on
CarlMcCoy
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, Markymark wrote:
Maybe a few of us do!
I thank Chessman for saving me some money and hassle.
He does seem angry but should a refund [minus postage] be 'hush money'
I hope the company does things differently for it's next release even if it's only a pretty deck of cards!

Absolutely not "hush money". We encourage people to be open, honest and vocal about our products but there is a difference between posting your thoughts and going on a fortnight long tireless campaign against something. This is why I'd rather speak with him personally to try and find any sort of common ground or resolution.


There is a difference. But if you guys would have come on here to address the comments in a timely manner there may have been not such an overwhelming uprising. Sorry Lloyd, but you can't say you were to busy to come on here and take 5 minutes to address these comments. Your "To Busy" remark doesn't sit well. MANY of us are to busy but find time. I have a full time job, perform many gigs a year and raise three boys. But I can find 5 minutes here and there. And you trying to say that a minority was dissatisfied? There are not many products here on the café that get such bad reviews as CHANGE did.

Now, maybe you have a small valid point about working with the gimmick. That is true with a lot of gimmicks. But an overwhelming majority here say that even the gimmicks are poorly made. Now, that's a different manner.

I didn't want to post my thoughts but MAN UP and quit trying to give excuses of why you couldn't come on here and face the music. That's a cop out IMO. Excuses are like AssH&^les, everyone has one and they all stink.



It could be argued that even if one has 5 mins / 10 mins / 20 mins to come on here - be it from abroad or from at home - to read through and reply, that doesn't necessarily mean that that it's 'enough' time to read through everything and give a proper and thoughtful answer to heavy criticism. Does it?

No, it doesn't.

Not having a bash RNK, just saying it as I see it. I was pretty disappointed with Change when I received my gimmicks, especially as a hobbyist magician. I was also not completely convinced by the instructional videos, mostly because I had the same reservations about the gimmicks as others have had. I haven't had time to view the live performances just posted, as, ironically, I'm too busy with work. But I'll check them out at some point. However, I'm going to keep mine and see what comes of them in time as they did spark the odd idea in the back of my mind.

As to remarks about negative reviews and majority feeling on here, I find it funny that so many posters on The Café, seem to be under the illusion that this place is the be all and end all of magic debate (again, not singling you out RNK, just an observation from over the years). I reckon as many people avoid this place like the plague, as come on here to post. And it's mostly because of all the back-biting and crusading that goes on.

At the end of the day, if one can get his/her money back if not satisfied, then I fail to see what else there is to complain about.
RNK
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Really CarlMcCoy? You really think that Lloyd and Geraint were not following from the beginning what was being posted here? Especially the Hype Lloyd was presenting about CHANGE. Absolutely no way Lloyd was not reading from the beginning what was being posted. To believe that is just being naïve. I'm not ripping on you CarlMcCoy I am looking at this with common sense about a creator and his/her product. A creator will obviously keep up with what was being posted about his/her creation especially when it's one that was supposed to be all you will ever need!
Calvin826
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Few things:

1. Magicians Helping Magicians- that's why Chessman has been all over this. It's a good(great!) thing, and I appreciate his posting.

2. Live performance doesn't show the other effects that were promoted by the original video. It's already been said how the ear bud effect is impractical, and the promo vid was edited to hide this fact. Also the ear bud gimmick looks awful(according to several posters)

3. Respectfully, to me, the live performances show a sub-par trick performed somewhat adequately. Weird, claw like grip on the card, too-fast movement after the change. Can this really be adapted to a larger routine? Maybe so, but wouldn't an old fashioned, low-tech color change work better?
CarlMcCoy
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, RNK wrote:
Really CarlMcCoy? You really think that Lloyd and Geraint were not following from the beginning what was being posted here? Especially the Hype Lloyd was presenting about CHANGE. Absolutely no way Lloyd was not reading from the beginning what was being posted. To believe that is just being naïve. I'm not ripping on you CarlMcCoy I am looking at this with common sense about a creator and his/her product. A creator will obviously keep up with what was being posted about his/her creation especially when it's one that was supposed to be all you will ever need!


Didn't say they weren't following. I said "It could be argued that even if one has 5 mins / 10 mins / 20 mins to come on here - be it from abroad or from at home - to read through and reply, that doesn't necessarily mean that that it's 'enough' time to read through everything and give a proper and thoughtful answer to heavy criticism"

Even if they were following, every day, still doesn't mean anything, as even when they did come on and answer...they just got more bashing. So earlier, perhaps they thought to just wait until they had sufficient time and or the live performances that everyone was wanting...maybe? More than likely though, they weren't following this thread keenly whilst away doing something more interesting than watching themselves being torn apart on an internet forum. As an example, I've just got back from a week in France with my family. Had my iPhone the whole time. Never turned it on once...not to check emails, not to check voicemails and certainly not to come on this place.

True, I'm not a creator with a product out...but so what? This forum really thinks a lot of itself that people continually expect magic creators to be at their beck and call.

Again, for clarity, not attacking you...merely responding.

But overall...no, I do not believe I'm being naive suggesting that maybe they both had better things to do with their time than come on this forum.
pegasus
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@Lloyd. I didn't realise FISM ran from June 26 to July 21. Smile
RNK
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I do respect your opinion CarlMcCoy. IMHO, of course they were checking this thread and easily could have responded earlier. That's a no-brainer IMO. After all the HYPE they spread to totally ignore this thread, sorry, can't see it.
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