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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » CHANGE over @ Ellusionist (276 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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CarlMcCoy
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Yes, well I respect your opinion as well mate. And you may very well be right. But even if you are, I still don't see it as a reason for them to jump into a discussion until they feel fit and ready to...or can be bothered. Christ...if I jumped on every topic and railroaded thread on this place, I'd have to sell my house and move in here full time.

Have just watched the live performance video. Have to say it changes my mind somewhat on my initial impression of the gimmicks. In all honesty, I think the major thing that Ellusionist got wrong, was not filling the download and trailer with loads of live stuff, as it really shows it working.

Still don't think it's for me really, but maybe I'll even give it a go sometime...if I can stop drinking myself into an early grave long enough to actually be able to find my gimmicks...
J-Mac
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I think that Lloyd's comment to Chessman about keeping up his complaining so long can be directly connected to Lloyd's absence from this thread for so long. If the concerns had been addressed promptly would Chessman have kept it up for so long? Can't know for sure, but I think a lot of it could have been nipped way back at the start if Lloyd, Geraint, or someone from Ellusionist would have at least tried to address the concerns back at the beginning.

Jim
pelicantrapper
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, J-Mac wrote:
I think a lot of it could have been nipped way back at the start if Lloyd, Geraint, or someone from Ellusionist would have at least tried to address the concerns back at the beginning.

Jim

Someone, anyone.
barts185
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, robwar0100 wrote:

The gimmick is so touchy, there is no way to know what the spectator is seeing. What I am seeing looks terrible with all of my handlings.




Have you tried the suggestion here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuImhGEAsnk&t=5m49s ?

I'm presuming you have, just figured it was worth pointing out.
GeraintClarke
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, CarlMcCoy wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, RNK wrote:
Really CarlMcCoy? You really think that Lloyd and Geraint were not following from the beginning what was being posted here? Especially the Hype Lloyd was presenting about CHANGE. Absolutely no way Lloyd was not reading from the beginning what was being posted. To believe that is just being naïve. I'm not ripping on you CarlMcCoy I am looking at this with common sense about a creator and his/her product. A creator will obviously keep up with what was being posted about his/her creation especially when it's one that was supposed to be all you will ever need!


Didn't say they weren't following. I said "It could be argued that even if one has 5 mins / 10 mins / 20 mins to come on here - be it from abroad or from at home - to read through and reply, that doesn't necessarily mean that that it's 'enough' time to read through everything and give a proper and thoughtful answer to heavy criticism"

Even if they were following, every day, still doesn't mean anything, as even when they did come on and answer...they just got more bashing. So earlier, perhaps they thought to just wait until they had sufficient time and or the live performances that everyone was wanting...maybe? More than likely though, they weren't following this thread keenly whilst away doing something more interesting than watching themselves being torn apart on an internet forum. As an example, I've just got back from a week in France with my family. Had my iPhone the whole time. Never turned it on once...not to check emails, not to check voicemails and certainly not to come on this place.

True, I'm not a creator with a product out...but so what? This forum really thinks a lot of itself that people continually expect magic creators to be at their beck and call.

Again, for clarity, not attacking you...merely responding.

But overall...no, I do not believe I'm being naive suggesting that maybe they both had better things to do with their time than come on this forum.


Nicely put. Thank you.
pegasus
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Probably too busy spending all that money they collected through false advertising. Smile
RNK
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, CarlMcCoy wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, RNK wrote:
Really CarlMcCoy? You really think that Lloyd and Geraint were not following from the beginning what was being posted here? Especially the Hype Lloyd was presenting about CHANGE. Absolutely no way Lloyd was not reading from the beginning what was being posted. To believe that is just being naïve. I'm not ripping on you CarlMcCoy I am looking at this with common sense about a creator and his/her product. A creator will obviously keep up with what was being posted about his/her creation especially when it's one that was supposed to be all you will ever need!


Didn't say they weren't following. I said "It could be argued that even if one has 5 mins / 10 mins / 20 mins to come on here - be it from abroad or from at home - to read through and reply, that doesn't necessarily mean that that it's 'enough' time to read through everything and give a proper and thoughtful answer to heavy criticism"

Even if they were following, every day, still doesn't mean anything, as even when they did come on and answer...they just got more bashing. So earlier, perhaps they thought to just wait until they had sufficient time and or the live performances that everyone was wanting...maybe? More than likely though, they weren't following this thread keenly whilst away doing something more interesting than watching themselves being torn apart on an internet forum. As an example, I've just got back from a week in France with my family. Had my iPhone the whole time. Never turned it on once...not to check emails, not to check voicemails and certainly not to come on this place.

True, I'm not a creator with a product out...but so what? This forum really thinks a lot of itself that people continually expect magic creators to be at their beck and call.

Again, for clarity, not attacking you...merely responding.

But overall...no, I do not believe I'm being naive suggesting that maybe they both had better things to do with their time than come on this forum.


Nicely put. Thank you.


Please. To busy to respond. Just keep digging a deeper hole.
RNK
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, pegasus wrote:
Probably too busy spending all that money they collected through false advertising. Smile


Nicely put.
Low Key
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Quote:
On Jul 18, 2015, Griflex wrote:
I bought this on a pre-order...I live in the UK and had to pay the high shipping costs...Ellusionist had not shipped my item on the Wednesday after the date of release so I cancelled my order as I had changed my mind after the early bad reviews on here...Ellusionist said they could not cancel my order due to the volume of orders of this effect as it would take too long to process and they would have to ship it to me in the UK and when I receive it ship it back to them at my cost to then get my refund!!!!....This I told them was totally unacceptable with regards to distance selling laws and I insisted on my full refund...I also filed a dispute with Paypal siting what I have just said


This happened to me, too.
Except, unlike Griflex I still haven't received a response to my PayPal dispute.

I was going to keep this between me and the Ellusionist customers service team because I'm not in the habit of airing my dirty laundry. But I read the following from Lloyd Barnss:

Quote:
however there comes a point where you were one of our only customers to ask for a refunded


And it grated.
If there were only one or two why the problem with my (reasonable) request? And the slow response time?
That statement suggests to me only a handful of customers asked for a refund. Let's be generous and say 10. Out of 2000.
Three of us are on here, two have had problems, one still hasn't had a response. Not a great track record when Chessman is 'one of the only' customers to ask for a refund...

I'll also echo that Ellusionist are blaming people instead of addressing problems.
A point that got a bit lost when they started debating if Chessman was behaving properly or not.
Fin
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Ten minutes of "Q&A" plus the live performances.. That's a real good attempt at damage control there. All of it could have been avoided if the initial advertising was not so over-the-top and FALSE. Yes.. I said that.. The claim that "THIS IS A COMPLETELY REVOLUTIONARY NEW CONCEPT" IS 100% FALSE. That quote is from a video, still available on their facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/ellusionist/videos/10152968854826161/) and on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3agDjOgmto)

So I'll repeat the question I asked on facebook, which has remained unanswered now for over two weeks: Lloyd (& Ellusionist), don't you think it's dishonest and misleading to call it a "completely revolutionary new concept"? There are several entire decks already on the market that have been using this exact "technology" for years. One such example demo was uploaded onto youtube in 2007!

Lenticular ("changing") playing card, posted on youtube in 2007!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7D0Zk87FY8

More lenticular playing cards.. here reviewed on youtube in 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rqn6TqbWJM

People being unhappy because they don't like the angles, the quality, or because they don't think it's practical, is one thing, and your "Q&A" plus the live performances are a valiant attempt to (finally) address those criticisms. But the real question here, and the one which caused this to snowball in the way it did, is concerning the over-hyped, exaggerated claims, and what turns out to be a provably false claim that it is a "completely revolutionary new concept". It is not a completely revolutionary new concept. This ain't about semantics. It really isn't new or revolutionary to use this method to have a card visually change. It's that simple. Now whether you just failed to think about doing a quick google/youtube search for "lenticular playing cards" before making that claim, or whether you knew they existed but chose to leave out that info.. the claim is still false. Please change the advertising and remove the false claim from the video on facebook and youtube. If you don't do this, you are willingly lying to your customers, and that is something that goes way beyond practicality issues and other comparatively minor niggles.
robwar0100
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, barts185 wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, robwar0100 wrote:

The gimmick is so touchy, there is no way to know what the spectator is seeing. What I am seeing looks terrible with all of my handlings.




Have you tried the suggestion here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuImhGEAsnk&t=5m49s ?

I'm presuming you have, just figured it was worth pointing out.


Yes, I have, but I appreciate you sharing this just in case I had not.

I tried the mirror, tried the extra card, and it just does not come through.

The frustration is it looked good in the trailer and the reactions looked great in the live performances, but I have not been able to get this right.

Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
robwar0100
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Low Key,

They wouldn't give me a refund. They were giving them out, then all of a sudden it stopped.

Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
Jupiter47
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What reason did they give for not issuing a refund?
robwar0100
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Something to the effect it the reason did not fit into the company's parameters.

I should note I was told the live videos was coming out and if I still was not pleased, they would refund my money. Not sure I want to pay shipping and lose 20 percent.

Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
gtx magic
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Quote:
On Jul 22, 2015, robwar0100 wrote:
Low Key,

They wouldn't give me a refund. They were giving them out, then all of a sudden it stopped.

Bobby


That will be because there is a high demand for unhappy customers wanting refunds. Ellusionist say there is very few unhappy customers, if that was the case then they would refund without hesitating,There is obviously a high volume of unhappy customers and they stand to loose a lot of revenue if they refund everyone that's unhappy with the purchase of CHANGE which will change magic forever !!!

Graham
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Low Key
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A few minutes after posting here my PayPal request was escalated to a dispute by the seller.

I'm 'one of the only' customers (again, out of 2,000 sales totalling $60,000) to request a refund yet they do this?
Or the four of us on here now are part of a much bigger group and they're lying about that or total sales or both.
Either way it doesn't give me faith in Ellusionist.
Dougini
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Quote:
On Jul 22, 2015, Low Key wrote:
...it doesn't give me faith in Ellusionist.


No. Me neither. This is disappointing, to say the least. I might just put them in the SPAM category next email I get from them. Or UNSUBSCRIBE, whichever. I am thoroughly disgusted seeing this. No, I DON'T own this! Thank God! Epic FAIL on their part. No way around it.

Doug
Martin.Lester
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I gave up on them after they offeed a 15% Discount but on the Package Put down the FULL RETAIL Price

so ended up paying extra Customs Charges on a Price I never paid

As the Customer Service at E was Take it or Leave it (Next Time I am going to Leave It !)
Robmonster
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Really? What percentage is import duty where you are? Even assuming 20% the difference in duty owed between something full price and 85% of that price is going to be small.

You should pay customs charge on everything from overseas
Low Key
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In the UK if it's below £36 (gift) or £15 (anything else) there's no import charge.
If over it's a base handling charge of £8 plus 20% percent of the cost.

So $1 could potentially make an £11 difference to the price.
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