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Gorecki
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Very sweet looking effects, and I'm not sure how it's done.
But here's what's stopping me: it looks so much like lenticulars that even if that's not how it's done, I'm afraid most spectators will assume it is.
And as we all know, if they *think* they found the solution, then in their minds, the magic is gone (whether or not their theory is right).

That's why convincers abound, especially when it comes to stage magic. Copperfield sure *looks* like he's suspended from wires, right?
Well, we'll show you enough "proofs" to convince you that it couldn't be the case. Otherwise, spectators just go "He's suspended from wires" and that's the end of it.
magicinsight
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, robd wrote:
If I'd released an effect which was extensively hyped as 'life-changing' and claimed to 'change the face of magic forever', I'd expect some debate online about what it actually was. Particularly if it was on sale as pre-order, with a limited supply, and the only demo of it was a "no-spectator, fixed camera angle, zero set-up and clean-up" video. I certainly wouldn't suggest that such debate was impolite or showed a lack of respect.

But that's just me.


The reason magic companies make those trailers, is because people see a double lift and dismiss the power of the effect. Or people exclaim " I KNOW HOW IT'S DONE "

The method is the least important thing in magic, it's the effect that's important. Clean-ups and get-readys will be taught with the product, but as magicians we'll all be able to re-engineer it from the trailer, and people are less likely to want to see the entire thing. Much like a movie only shows highlights in a trailer, to get you to go and see the film.

The trailer isn't there to teach you the trick, it's there to sell it to you.


Maybe. But there are creators out there such as Tony Miller, JM and Cameron Francis to name a few that DO show you FULL uncut performances of what you get and because of this get a lot of sales. They understand they are selling to magicians whether hobbyists or professionals and want us to be as informed as we can to make our decision on whether or not the product/effect is something that will work for us. It's not about trying to sell the product to everybody, it's about whether the product will fit the performer. To me, this shows they have great admiration and respect for the art and the performers.

Though, I understand for most it's about sell sell sell. Which is understandable, after all a lot of creators depend on this as it's their livelihood. Though, IMO, there is greater respect for those creators that are willing to show the entire routine for buyers to base their purchasing decision.

RNK


Totally agree. I think creators who are honest in their approach and show full, unedited performances from start to finish will see an increase in their sales and in their reputation. Anyone who bought any high end item ($1,250 and up)from Richard Gerlitz knows that not only can you see a full performance of the effect on his web site (gerlitzmagic.com) but he also provides openly provides a link for the full explanation of the mechanics. His items are always sold out and are hard to come by. While he is able to show a full explanation of the mechanics because he knows no one is able to reproduce the effects, and no one is suggesting that any creator of magic explain how is it done, but it shows that if you are honest with the potential buyers, the effect will stand on its own merits and will sell if it is a good effect. Glad that David Penn took that approach when he posted several unedited videos of full performances of his new effect, The Vault. In the short run it will increase sells and in the long run it will establish good relationships with buyers.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
weepinwil
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Quote: "Totally agree. I think creators who are honest in their approach and show full, unedited performances from start to finish will see an increase in their sales and in their reputation. Anyone who bought any high end item ($1,250 and up)from Richard Gerlitz knows that not only can you see a full performance of the effect on his web site (gerlitzmagic.com) but he also provides openly provides a link for the full explanation of the mechanics. His items are always sold out and are hard to come by. While he is able to show a full explanation of the mechanics because he knows no one is able to reproduce the effects, and no one is suggesting that any creator of magic explain how is it done, but it shows that if you are honest with the potential buyers, the effect will stand on its own merits and will sell if it is a good effect. Glad that David Penn took that approach when he posted several unedited videos of full performances of his new effect, The Vault. In the short run it will increase sells and in the long run it will establish good relationships with buyers.

Michael

That's why we only open the coffin half way in the American way of death; the cadaver does not have any shoes. If we opened the entire casket people would think they had been cheated by not including those expensive alligator skin boots the customer came in with.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
Jack Straw
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Don't get all Joe Pesci from "Goodfellas" on me for saying this, Will, but you're a very funny guy!
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
saysold1
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Stucky wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 24, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:
Then I realised that's not how we act if trying to show respect towards one and other.


You must be new here...


Exactly. As Joan Rivers used to famously say ... "oh grow up!"
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
pelicantrapper
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Quote:
On Jun 24, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 24, 2015, RNK wrote:
In the demo the card is never shown from the side. I wonder how normal or thick the card is? The rope through the card was edited so I wonder how that effect truly is? I also wonder how long this will last with regular usage. My card magic is 99% gimmickless because I don't want to have to rely on something breaking/not working. But I am always open to gaffs. I learned a long time ago how gimmicked cards/boxes etc. are just not 100% reliable and got sick of wasting money on them.

Answers to the above questions would be great!

Thanks,
RNK


To answer a few of your questions. Yes this can be seen from the side as this is practically a normal card. These will last for years. No heat or special inks. These will 100% not break during performance. The headphone through card was only cut because I filmed the clip myself and couldn't tilt the camera. What you see is what you get. You receive 5 gimmicks ready to go that will last a life time.



Can Morpheus be done with the face of the card??
Also why was there no camera man? "This is a concept that is supposed to change magic and change my life (not to mention "the creator had to be flown in" Here is the quote from the email---- "Brad has seen, learnt or perfected every magic trick that's crossed his path in the last 15 years of Ellusionist. He saw it, and flew the artist 5,000 miles from the UK to San Francisco before he'd managed to get his jaw back up from the floor. " And you still can't get a camera man?
I don't get it. Anyone else? There is always at least one person around me to film something for me unless I am rushing or the project does not need multiple angles. C'mon Ellusionist. You're the company that got me into magic. Go back to your roots!
I like the product, I bought one, and I support you Lloyd but it is little things like this that make the project seem rushed for money.
Thanks!
saysold1
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Stucky wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 24, 2015, Lloyd Barnes wrote:
Then I realised that's not how we act if trying to show respect towards one and other.


You must be new here...


Exactly. As Joan Rivers used to famously say ... "oh grow up!"

So as a mentalist I can predict Lloyds response: He probably already avoids the Café because he sees this as some kind of swirl of "negativity" and sniping and just filled with meanie part time hobbiests.

But like other creators who typically avoid the Café - man do they show up with enthusiasm when they need us and want to sell us something.

Lloyd - this a fine community with some helpful and intelligent discourse. Be a good sport and play nice - if your product is amazing and groundbreaking you can and should sell loads of them. But don't come barging in and expect to control the discourse - it's not going to happen.

Let me suggest you now focus on your wonderful new product. If things are getting a little heated here it's solely of your own doing.

Cheers and hope you sell a bundle although I will be watching from the sidelines.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Magic.Maddy
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Just got an email from E saying they sold out the first day and they are producing another 999 copies.

Chessman must be psychic Smile
Jack Straw
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, saysold1 wrote:

Lloyd - this a fine community with some helpful and intelligent discourse. Be a good sport and play nice - if your product is amazing and groundbreaking you can and should sell loads of them. But don't come barging in and expect to control the discourse - it's not going to happen.


Lloyd has made a career out of controlling his audience (I believe that he said that he'll teach you how to control the grabbers if you PM him), but this audience is one that will be impossible to control.

And that's not a bad thing.

But, Lloyd, I do have trouble controlling grabbers, so maybe I'll PM you for some help there.

And I was one of the 999 buyers of this item
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
RNK
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Jack Straw wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, saysold1 wrote:

Lloyd - this a fine community with some helpful and intelligent discourse. Be a good sport and play nice - if your product is amazing and groundbreaking you can and should sell loads of them. But don't come barging in and expect to control the discourse - it's not going to happen.


Lloyd has made a career out of controlling his audience (I believe that he said that he'll teach you how to control the grabbers if you PM him), but this audience is one that will be impossible to control.

And that's not a bad thing.

But, Lloyd, I do have trouble controlling grabbers, so maybe I'll PM you for some help there.

And I was one of the 999 buyers of this item


I agree- this is so visual that simply moving on to another effect or a double lift may not suffice for a lot of audiences.
Chessmann
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Thanks, Maddy Smile

I can't believe some of the childishness here. Among other things, it is as if people have completely ignored Lloyd's statement that full video performances are on the way (obviously, he needs to deliver on what he promises...).

Lloyd, don't bother.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Jack Straw wrote:

Lloyd has made a career out of controlling his audience (I believe that he said that he'll teach you how to control the grabbers if you PM him), but this audience is one that will be impossible to control.

And that's not a bad thing.

But, Lloyd, I do have trouble controlling grabbers, so maybe I'll PM you for some help there.



You're saying GeraintClarke is Lloyd Barnes?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Merenkov
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I think the “fishing” is bad form, but I get it. When you can’t see a performance in person, when your only exposure is via an idealized viewing angle (the video camera’s), it’s hard to know exactly how it will play in the real world. That said, it amazes me that people will still buy something like this just based on a video performance (and no actual reviews), but I’m glad those people exist. I anxiously await your reviews!
JordanVictoria
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Lloyd showed me this about a year ago and I felt in love with this at the moment I saw the change!
This is so powerful and the possibilities/ways to use those gimmicks are endless.

What's awesome here is that for only $30 you have not only one but 5 gimmicks to perform miracles!
Some other companies would have sold them separately for the same price so thanks you Ellusionist for that!!

Lloyd would never release an effect that is not practical and usable in real life. He has a very creative mind and I'm very proud to say he is a friend of I !

Thanks you my friend to share this with us, I'm so impatient to receive my order! Smile
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Merenkov wrote:
I think the “fishing” is bad form, but I get it. When you can’t see a performance in person, when your only exposure is via an idealized viewing angle (the video camera’s), it’s hard to know exactly how it will play in the real world. That said, it amazes me that people will still buy something like this just based on a video performance (and no actual reviews), but I’m glad those people exist. I anxiously await your reviews!


I think Ellusionist (I actually wonder how much say Lloyd had in the trailer, as it is not being marketed not by Lloyd, but by Ellusionist) did well by showing the gimmicks close-up. You see very clearly what is happening and how it happens. This is the main selling point and purpose of the effect, but naturally, this choice leaves some other questions unanswered re: angles, though Lloyd did answer this earlier in the topic, and stated that live performances are coming. These, plus reviews will hopefully help greatly for those who's performance requirements for this effect would be broader than the current trailer shows.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Jack Straw
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Jack Straw wrote:

Lloyd has made a career out of controlling his audience (I believe that he said that he'll teach you how to control the grabbers if you PM him), but this audience is one that will be impossible to control.

And that's not a bad thing.

But, Lloyd, I do have trouble controlling grabbers, so maybe I'll PM you for some help there.



You're saying GeraintClarke is Lloyd Barnes?


No I'm not.

Did I make a mistake, and was it Geraint that stated that he would help with grabbers?

And I'm not making a dig at Lloyd; perhaps I should have said that all magicians certainly TRY to make a career at controlling their audiences.

Let me just tell you about my last encounter with a "grabber", although it wasn't exactly "grabbed".

I'm "friendly" with some motorcycle clubs in my area (because I work with a guy that is in one of them- I myself am not a member and do not ride and I am not a tough guy), and 2 or 3 or 4 times a year I go to club events to perform.

They are kind of fun, depending on your definition of fun. They usually feature a band or two, and beer and hot dogs and hamburgers, along with dwarf tossing and dunk tanks and wet t-shirt and Miss Full Throttle contests.

Three weekends ago I went to one, and I was at the beginning stage of performing Alex Lourido's "CAPtivated". I had 4 beer caps on my open palm, and while I was looking at a spec to my right, another one on my left went BAM, and knocked the 4 caps out of my hand.

Well, we all had a good laugh at that one, including me. I ended up walking away, and 15 minutes later I went looking for my gimmicks. Two of the four ended up lost.

But we all had a good laugh!

How do I prevent this, besides not performing at all for these kind of events?
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
taller8
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I guess they are sold out according to the Ellusionist. I didn't know there were 999 magician/hobbyists in the world. Smile

I was impressed by the video, the price, and the fact that you get a gimmick for ever shown effect. Nice job on the pricing.


I can understand a few practicality questions, but SOME people always take it way too far In here.
Magic.Maddy
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From what I understand, the download will be available on Sunday. So without product in hand, I'm sure there will still be a few reviews on the quality of teaching, live performances, angle issues, and etc. I know I will post one after watching the explanation. I will later post another one after I receive the gimmicks.
seanksutton
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Just ordered. Mostly because it looks sweet and Lloyd seems like a cool guy.
weepinwil
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2015, Jack Straw wrote:
Don't get all Joe Pesci from "Goodfellas" on me for saying this, Will, but you're a very funny guy!


No offense at all, Jack. I just tell it as I see it.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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