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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » CHANGE over @ Ellusionist (276 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chessmann
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Lloyd Barnes wrote:

I've noticed that Chessman is at the helm of this thread making the majority of the posts. I totally understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting to "stop others making the same mistake that you did", however there comes a point where you were one of our only customers to ask for a refunded (which we did immediately) then you spent the next two weeks continually making post after post on the Café ripping apart anything to do with Change, there comes a point where it goes from trying to warn some customers to becoming an out an out troll. Nothing is going to change your mind on this topic, everyone on this entire thread can see that, however and as arrogant as this sound, you are the minority. I see that others have posted their concerns too, that is great! Honest opinions are always welcomed but when it's the same person tirelessly on the attack it all goes a bit stale. I 100% stand behind my work on Change and am incredibly proud of how it turned out and the general response to it from around the world, I do though try to make time for as many people as possible and I feel that you feel incredibly wronged by myself and Ellusionist so I'd love to take some time to talk with you personally to see if there's a way to right this or at least find some common ground. Magic should be a brotherhood and the thought of anyone feeling so angry towards one and other really gets to me.

***

Well, I wouldn't say I was at the helm, but it does seem to be lost that I gave it a VERY thorough review, detailing all of the tests I made with it in different lighting conditions.

I think your statement here bears repeating:

"...then you spent the next two weeks continually making post after post on the Café ripping apart anything to do with Change".

Lloyd, this is not true. Before writing this, I found and re-read each of my posts in the topic since my review posts. While there was some humor (the dog turds were over the top, admittedly, but were just poking fun), I would not at all characterize my posts as trollish, or the number of posts excessive, or ripping anything to do with "Change" at every turn. I invite *anyone* to read my posts, and look at the number of posts I made, and draw their own conclusion. Trolling was never my intent, but you - being on the flip side of the coin - could see it that way. Its understandable.

It may be beneficial for you to go back and read my posts, and the posts of other owners who thought poorly of "Change". I am certainly not alone. You say that I am in the minority in my feelings about "Change". Well, certainly not among owners at the Café. But let's go with that for the sake of argument. So what? One movie reviewer loves a movie, another hates it. At least I have gone into GREAT detail as to why I feel as I do about "Change".

I hold no animosity or anger toward you, Lloyd, but a bit of disappointment. If I saw you on the street, I wouldn't bring up "Change". I do feel, however, that you've put yourself in a very tough position with this release, and E compounded this on you with their marketing. I've bought tricks that I didn't care for, and "Change" was only $29. I'm sure it will happen again in the future. When I did the pre-order, I knew it was a gamble, but honestly, I did it for fun (as I stated earlier in the topic).

I must say that it is has been sad to see E's and Geraint's bent to "blame the customer" in all of this. This is particularly disturbing.

Do I feel wronged by Ellusionist? Well, yes, as the marketing (imo) was blatently deceptive. I'm not losing sleep over it, though.

What I am seeing is that, while I gave my opinion of "Change" and thoroughly backed it up with a good deal of tests in different lighting conditions...it seems that I (and other customers) are more to blame than Ellusionist Smile This is even more noticeable when there has been no challenge to any of the negative aspects of "Change" that have been brought up. About the only thing we have heard from you, Geraint, and E is that the problem is not the product, the problem is the customers.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:

Chessman, you seem to be intent on picking apart every line from my response, and then responding to your own commentary on it.


This is not uncommon. Many people do it. It has the purpose of clarity. And your words most certainly earned my response, I'll say that!

Quote:
You didn't like it on Day 1. You asked for a refund on Day 1. We granted you that refund on Day 1... but instead, you've spent the last 2 weeks !@#$%ing about a trick that you should of sent back to the team to get your money back on? That's great customer service...... If I buy a pair of jeans that I didn't feel were blue-enough, and I took them back, and the company gave me a refund. I wouldn't harbour any animosity to waste 2 weeks of my time moaning about it. Where you're concerned, the CS team at E have done their best with you. If you're still not pleased after being offered the opportunity to get your money back, then there is nothing more we can do.


Geraint, you have just demonstrated that you STILL don't know what this is all about. You say there is nothing more you can do? That's incorrect, there is something very great that E can do - something that they can promise never to do again. Can you guess what that is?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
JackMagic
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Quote:
On Jul 22, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:

Chessman, you seem to be intent on picking apart every line from my response, and then responding to your own commentary on it.


This is not uncommon. Many people do it. It has the purpose of clarity. And your words most certainly earned my response, I'll say that!

Quote:
You didn't like it on Day 1. You asked for a refund on Day 1. We granted you that refund on Day 1... but instead, you've spent the last 2 weeks !@#$%ing about a trick that you should of sent back to the team to get your money back on? That's great customer service...... If I buy a pair of jeans that I didn't feel were blue-enough, and I took them back, and the company gave me a refund. I wouldn't harbour any animosity to waste 2 weeks of my time moaning about it. Where you're concerned, the CS team at E have done their best with you. If you're still not pleased after being offered the opportunity to get your money back, then there is nothing more we can do.


Geraint, you have just demonstrated that you STILL don't know what this is all about. You say there is nothing more you can do? That's incorrect, there is something very great that E can do - something that they can promise never to do again. Can you guess what that is?



Yes it's a shame he does not get it but thanks for all your good work far to long we have had to put up with lies from this company and well over time someone stood up and put a stop to all the crap E and some other dealers have been getting away with


Hopefully people will once and for all avoid Pre Orders !
Spartan21
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This should be interesting, E have just sent me an email requesting my thoughts on Change, good and bad. I wonder if they will post it.
robwar0100
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Quote:
On Jul 22, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
What I am seeing is that, while I gave my opinion of "Change" and thoroughly backed it up with a good deal of tests in different lighting conditions...it seems that I (and other customers) are more to blame than Ellusionist Smile This is even more noticeable when there has been no challenge to any of the negative aspects of "Change" that have been brought up. About the only thing we have heard from you, Geraint, and E is that the problem is not the product, the problem is the customers.

Chessman,

Well said. I have not been quiet about my disappointment, but I have been reluctant to assign blame because it still just might be my handling. I recognize this is a possibility because I have tried to do an Erdnase color change for years, and I still can't do it.

But, I think this is a fair insight.

This thread is now on its 21st page. We have been around the block and back a time or two. If there is anyone out there who is enjoying Change and figured out the best way to handle the gimmicks, I would love to hear from them.

I have decided I am not going to pursue a refund. I was assured if I still had problems they would issue the refund, but for me now it is a logistics and business issue. I don't want to spend the time packaging it, going to the post office and sending it back only to face the 20 percent restocking fee or whatever they call it.

I keep hoping one day it will just click, and I will have the life-changing effect I was promised.

Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
writeall
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Is there some kind of Law of the Universe that the most hyped products are usually the worst?
Martin.Lester
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On Jul 22, 2015, Low Key wrote:
In the UK if it's below £36 (gift) or £15 (anything else) there's no import charge.
If over it's a base handling charge of £8 plus 20% percent of the cost.

So $1 could potentially make an £11 difference to the price.


Yes you are correct , I am more than happy to pay the custom charges on the price I paid but adding 15% extra on to the declared price also cost me extra £11 post office charge , all could have been avoided if the put the correct amount I actually paid them

The response was next time I should wait until it comes out from local dealer !
Iain1986
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I see the blurb on their website is still the same....so even after they "address" concerns by releasing the 10 minute Q&A....the advertising blurb on the website remains the same. So nothing learnt. Issue some refunds. Jobs a good'un.

Also.

Why was there no live performances on the dvd? How hard could it be for a company like Ellusionist to film some live performances? They do it all the time....why not with this?

Why are the live performances that were released filmed in Italy while all this "snowballing" was happening? Why did NO ONE involved in the production think, "Lets film some reactions".

If this was SO revolutionary and game changing as was advertised..why did NO ONE film ANYONE'S reaction to it what-so-ever?!?!
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Jul 22, 2015, robwar0100 wrote:
Well said. I have not been quiet about my disappointment, but I have been reluctant to assign blame because it still just might be my handling. I recognize this is a possibility because I have tried to do an Erdnase color change for years, and I still can't do it.

But, I think this is a fair insight.

This thread is now on its 21st page. We have been around the block and back a time or two. If there is anyone out there who is enjoying Change and figured out the best way to handle the gimmicks, I would love to hear from them.

I have decided I am not going to pursue a refund. I was assured if I still had problems they would issue the refund, but for me now it is a logistics and business issue. I don't want to spend the time packaging it, going to the post office and sending it back only to face the 20 percent restocking fee or whatever they call it.

I keep hoping one day it will just click, and I will have the life-changing effect I was promised.



Good for you, man. Stick to it as long as you feel there's a shot!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Chessmann
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On Jul 21, 2015, J-Mac wrote:
I think that Lloyd's comment to Chessman about keeping up his complaining so long can be directly connected to Lloyd's absence from this thread for so long. If the concerns had been addressed promptly would Chessman have kept it up for so long?


Actually, Lloyd's absence had naught to do with my presence. I didn't think he would change my opinion on the effect, but I was interested in seeing the live performances.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
robwar0100
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I have an idea, why don't those of us who have Change and were refused (me, at least initially) a refund, hit the streets and record video on our smartphones and post the reactions to Change so everyone can see how awesome of an effect it is?

Bobby

p.s. I am heading out to Niagara Falls, and it might be fun to try it on unsuspecting strangers.
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
MaxfieldsMagic
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IMO, although this is definitely not everything it was hyped up to be, it's certainly not the worst trick ever. The color changing card and blurry king are kind of neat, in particular, and pretty much do what they're supposed to. No, you can't stare at them up close while they're still without seeing what's going on, but plenty of card gaffs are like that, especially the ones with flaps. The card with the headphone cord is junk, because it's impossible to make the cord vanish. By contrast, the change in the coin gaff happens cleanly like you're flicking a switch. The penny is obviously large, but if you do a routine with a Sudsbury, such as Dishonest Abe, I could see working it in as a little "extra moment" if your Sudsbury had the right patina. Even if you dismiss it as magic for video, there's a place for that too, such as for a moment in a promo video clip. Anyway, I'm not rushing out to perform with this, but I'm not planning on throwing it away, either.
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hikeeba
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2015, Danny Kazam wrote:
I used to wonder how Ellusionist always maintained an A+ BBB rating despite many unresolved complaints, which eventually were wiped away.


I've had to go that route a couple of times to get satisfaction from ellusionist. Unfortunately I get the run-around with customer service, but when a BBB case is opened, they will respond. Shame it has to come to that - but I'd suggest anyone having difficulties with a refund should open a case.
RiBo
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On Jul 14, 2015, gtx magic wrote:
The reviews from the 3rd to 10th July = 12 only and no negative feed back. They tell us they have had overwhelming positive feed back and they are out of stock on the first batch.

I wonder where all the other reviews are,Mmmmm makes you wonder doesn't it !!!

Image

I just submitted mine, I'll be curious to see if it gets posted as is or gets changed in any way.

I rated it two stars by the way, for the construction quality. These gimmicks will last a very, very long time if one chooses to use them regularly. Even longer if you're like me and they wind up in a drawer for the duration.
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:

You didn't like it on Day 1. You asked for a refund on Day 1. We granted you that refund on Day 1... That's great customer service...... If I buy a pair of jeans that I didn't feel were blue-enough, and I took them back, and the company gave me a refund. I wouldn't harbour any animosity to waste 2 weeks of my time moaning about it. Where you're concerned, the CS team at E have done their best with you. If you're still not pleased after being offered the opportunity to get your money back, then there is nothing more we can do.



Geraint, 2 points:

- Great customer service begings PRIOR TO the sale. We should praise a company because it accepts a return for a poor product it knowingly sold to us in the first place? Who has heard of such a thing?

- Tell me, did the Blue Jean Store market that pair of jeans as something that will change your blue jean wearing world (and the color blue) forever? Did this blue jean store engage in some pretty wild-eyed marketing ("Holy ****, my jaw just hit the floor!" "Wake up our seamstress, we've got to get more of these made!")? No, I think there is a significant difference between your illustration and reality.

Moaning? I think you should read my posts again. The only one moaning here is you, moaning about fact that I have chosen to speak my mind about this product and the marketing tactics used to promote it.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Has E -ever- had anything but horrible customer service? I'm curious because after my experience I just decided they were not worth dealing with, don't feel like I've lost anything.

They had a sale that was advertised as going to a certain time. I logged in 45 minutes prior to the advertised end time and the sale was gone. I contacted customer service and the response was essentially, "F*#k you, you shouldn't have waited so long. We're not going to honor the sale price even though it's currently earlier than when we said the sale would end."

Told me all I needed to know, haven't been back.
CarlMcCoy
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Well I've never had anything other than excellent customer service from them.
And I've been a customer since Brad first set the site up.

I've always found that being polite and courteous gets you a long way in life*

*Obviously I'm not like that on here, but here is a wholly different kettle of fish and those fish often deserve it. Neither was I particularly directing my comment to you Barts. However I've often wondered if some of the people on here actually act the same way in real life. If so...it'd be why they get nowhere.

Rightso, another pot stirred...I'm off to grab a cold one from the fridge.
Jon Allen
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Quote:
On Jul 22, 2015, writeall wrote:
Is there some kind of Law of the Universe that the most hyped products are usually the worst?


Not in *every* case.......

Trust me......

Just wait......

;-)
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tomsk192
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You've all been had! Come on, really?

I remember getting such things in cereal packets in the 1980's.

Lloyd Barnes? Ha! His track record is appalling, just look. And Ellusionist? They are a bunch of utter w*nkers.

What grown man or woman ordered this dross? Are you insane? Are you drooling at the mouth?

You have only yourselves to blame.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Ellusionist has put out plenty of worthwhile DVDs and effects, IMO tomsk192, despite the fact that folks seem to like to slag them. I really enjoyed some of the early Brad Christian card magic DVDs - he presented a good selection of the "best" card effects, and gave more credit to the early creators than some seem willing to admit. Silver Dream by Justin Miller was great as well. And more recently, we have the Eric Jones coin DVDs; the Messado Ring package with rings and DVD at a very reasonable price; The Informant by Bobby Motta; and Ellusionist was the first to break "Sick" by Ponta the Smith. None of that suggests that "they are a bunch of utter w*nkers."

Clearly, though, Change was over-hyped. But Paul Harrris, Penguin, L&L, and others have been guilty of that same offense occasionally.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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