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CarpetShark Special user 576 Posts |
When I began my study of this wonderful art, wise men told me it was well worth the effort to learn all moves with BOTH hands. Made complete sense to me, as there would be many situations where the left hand (for righties) would have to perform a 'complex' move or two during a routine. So, I happily went off and spent the next few years doing just that.
At first it was very difficult to get the two hands to move with equal dexterity, usually spent far more time on the left than the right... but as I was learning the basics anyway, this was all well and good. As I took on more and more challenging routines, that policy no longer seemed feasible. While it would be nice to perform ANY trick with either hand being dominant, there really is no reason for it. In the end it's all about the spectators. They don't care what hand does what, they want to be entertained, amazed and all that great stuff! Just for fun, try running through something you are very good at, then try it reversing the hands. Assuming you can pull it off (which personally would blow me away!!) most specs would 'see' the same trick. They would certainly 'remember' it as the same trick. To clarify, when I say 'basics' I'm referring to all the stuff you will find on beginner's DVDS: passes, grips, palms, loads, clips, etc. Not having a solid foundation makes it difficult to build good complex routines later. Taking a look at this from another angle, as any routine is a composed string of moves (is there another word I can use that describes grips,palms..... ?) should not each be learned for both hands ? After all, I did say the basics needed to be ambi-D. This is where personal preferences come into play - if I learn a new vanish from a routine, I may want to apply it to other bits, so I should work on it with both hands.... what do you think ? Thanks for reading my ramblings...insomnia, like gravity, is a heartless !@#$%. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts |
As any sleight is supposed to "have never happened," the selection of sleight should be subservient to the flow of the effect and "natural" as perceived by the audience.
Being ambidextrous can increase the arsenal of available sleights, moves and subtleties.. This does not mandate their use or make such "better than" other sleights. When performing for repeat audiences, the ability to select alternative slights or "flow direction" can be valuable. The questions is, 'is there a reason for placing the coin in the other hand?" Using the other hand than expected does not answer this question. Undoubtedly, the discipline and practice time acquiring this skill will pay dividends, just as finger exercises will help with piano expertise. Your confidence in performing these sleights may be the most important factor. I speak as one who has lost most of my hand mobility and can no longer do 80% of what "i usta could." I still practice sleights but now lack the confidence to perform them for another.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
I read a book about 40 years ago that recommended being able to perform sleights with both hands, that anyone who couldn't was a "magic cripple." (I can't remember what book it was. Maybe someone knows?) I've always thought that such an ability would be ideal to add variety to various routines. For instance, in many one-coin routines, the same hand, usually the right, puts the coin in the same hand, usually the left, before a vanish. Done too often, a boredom factor sets in.
However, like writing, doing sleights with one's non-predominate hand is very difficult and, given the few benefits involved, not really worth the effort. |
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Bin Regular user 124 Posts |
I think I agree with you: the more basic the move, the more important it is to do it in both hands. You are severely disadvantaged if you can't classic palm with both hands. If you can't do a roll down flourish? Eh. But not being ambidextrous will always hider you to an extent. It's just only for the basic moves will everyone be majorly hindered alike.
Remember Quacky.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts |
I can do a good classic palm in my rh and a terrible one in lh, except when I do Cross Eyed Coins Across by David Williamson, in which case, my lh classic palm is good.
My hands change because of acromegaly, so I've had to re-learn stuff over the years. |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
I think it boils down to PRESENTATION. If part of a routine looks better with coin hidden in left hand FP than right hand FP, that will be the goal I work towards.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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Bin Regular user 124 Posts |
@fonda
Is that what it's called? I just call it the Jumpy Jumpy Coins because I didn't see a name in his DVD. That routine is basically what I had in mind when I was talking about the classic palm. It's a perfect example of how the hands work together. Being able to do two things at one time is one of our greatest weapons as magicians; spectators simply can't watch both hands. But it depends on the routine - I probably would have had almost no motivation to work on my left hand classic palm if it hadn't been for that routine. New routines can really inspire you to extend yourself, because learning the move isn't just some hypothetical: you see it being used to create real magic. (One of these days I'm going to break down and learn the Goshman p***h.) So actually, that's sort of an answer: the need to learn any move in any hand hinges on how you know you can use it. If it will give you the ability to perform a new routine, or an old one far better, then put in that time. Or don't if you don't feel it's worth it.
Remember Quacky.
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Palming is one thing, but doing, say, a retention of vision pass with either hand is much more difficult.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts |
That's what it's called in the book, yeah. A good one for practicing cp in both is on sleight of dave 2, a coins across done in a matrix type grid, so to speak.
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Bin Regular user 124 Posts |
I know he presents it as an alternative to a coins across, but I don't even look at it that way. The rapid fire jumping around back and forth has a completely different feel for me. I'd honestly be comfortable showing it adjacent to a coins across. (Anyways, off topic.)
Remember Quacky.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 26, 2015, Bin wrote: I heartily disagree. I have never been able to do a decent Classic Palm with ether hand -- and now not at all with arthritis. Of the 50+ coin effects I have created and marketed none require a Classic Palm. Many more in the works -- none with Classic Palm. I can do Coins Across, 3Fly, Chink-a-Chink, many POV type Passes, Coins to Glass, five versions of Misers Dream, etc -- all without using that sleight. Where is the disadvantage? The audience never knows in any case.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Bin Regular user 124 Posts |
Okay, I take it back. You can get around it if you are a fairly advanced magician. But bear in mind most are not. If it's possible, it's always good to open up your options. The need to come up with inventive ways to get around the classic palm is a disadvantage - how big of one depends on the person.
So I retract what I said (or rebrand it as hyperbole.)
Remember Quacky.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts |
John Ramsay never did a classic palm and he's offered up lots of good magic. Just depends on what you want to do.
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Leo H Inner circle 1334 Posts |
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On Jun 26, 2015, Ray Haining wrote: I'm pretty sure it was The Amateur Magician's Handbook. |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2015, Leo H wrote: Thanks. I think you're right. I got it from my local library. |
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Leo H Inner circle 1334 Posts |
Ray--does that mean you swiped it from your local library? Many of us have done this and have looked back and cringed.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
As a youth, I learned a few things like the Downs palm, and the Five Coin Star with both hands. I learned the Coin Roll with four coins simultaneously. Then, I realized that I was doing a "watch how clever I am" act. I changed my thinking, when I realized THAT!
I dropped the "Champagne glass and the Downs palm" Misers Dream. I went back to an ungaffed pail, a thumb p*lm and a finger p*lm. The MD was "suddenly" so strong, that it closes the show. Back then, I did a white glove split fan card routine. Now, I do only the fancy shuffles. I've made a living most of my life with a show that definitely involves hand skills. But, the PRESENTATION is definitely more important than the sleight of hand skills! (or the prop!) Tricks like the color change silk thru the hand, Professor's Nightmare, golf ball routine, "Slydini" silk knots, fancy card flourishes, linking rings, egg bag, serpentine silk, misers dream, ETC. are basic to my repertoire, but my presentation is what makes those tricks entertaining. The audience really doesn't care HOW I achieve the effects that they see, or think they see. The audience appreciates that I keep the tricks SIMPLE, and FUN! No agent has EVER asked if I can do "that trick" with BOTH HANDS! HIs only interest is: "Can you ENTERTAIN that audience?" I hope these few remarks are helpful.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Mb217 Inner circle 9530 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote: I pretty much agree here…Been waiting for someone to say it as well put... Thanks Dick.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2015, Leo H wrote: Absolutely not. We may have a classic case of projection here. |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
>>>LEO H.!
I borrowed lots of magic books from the public library (before libraries were called "media centers). The librarian let me keep them more than the usual 14 days. Her "big" rule was "Do not use a fried egg for a bookmark. --It gets the egg full of book dust!" For Pete's sake! Don't tell June Barrows Mussey that I ignored his "rule" to learn all sleights with both hands. I might get excommunicated from the "I Bother Magicians club"!)
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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