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Alex McInroy
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I loved Kostya's "Anti-Triumph." He broke every single rule for the routine and still made it work. But am I missing something here? I had a pretty good guess of what he was going to do based on his reputation and I'm pretty sure that's what happened. If he used some other method, he fooled me. Either way I'm glad he got through, I'm just surprised P&T didn't guess the one method he's so well known for.
jeremysexton
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Ah, I'd not heard of him before but just stumbled upon volumes 1 and 2 of his work on the move he likely did there. Might just have to add those to my library.
Alex McInroy
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I was sort of thinking maybe he'd do that routine and then solve it with a gaff/cooler/etc. but I'm pretty sure he didn't do that. I love that he got through though. It's one of the few examples of a "legit" triumph.
KristoBall
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So I mean... I love this show. But falk just used Joshua jay's effect. I much prefer original material and hope the show doesn't continue to have randomly perform other peoples' creations - which seems to be an upsetting trend this season. Much prefer it when creators like Kostya (which was awesome)
Poof-Daddy
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I am happy to see more and more magicians (on this show and other TV appearances) using Phoenix Brand Playing Cards. The fact that they are seen on TV helps them not look so "out of the ordinary" although the few times I have even been asked about them, I just say "I picked these up at the dollar store cheap" and once (only once) someone commented on the space on one side (the built in one way feature) and I quickly came back with "That is probably why they were so cheap at the dollar store - factory misprints" no more questions Smile
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KristoBall
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Hi Poof, replied to your PM but thought I should correct my post here as well - it seems I mixed up performer names and was a bit ambiguous in my critique. I was meaning to comment on the watch performance - I didn't rewatch to snag the performner's actual name - but that watch trick was revealed, among other ways, on Joshua Jay's Penguin LIVE lecture. I guess my larger point - and I am a huge fan of this show, and Wizard Wars (Masters of Illusion, not so much, except perhaps for a handful of standout routines and some unintentional comedy from Dean Cain) - is that I much prefer it when you see an inventor like Farquhar showcase original material to try to fool them. One trick, created by the performer - that's the best setup I think. Buying a trick on Penguin and performing it for Penn & Teller doesn't seem that compelling (at least to magicians who know things like this). It also feels like taking credit for the inventor's work unless you REALLY change up the routine and make it your own. The watch routine is one I do for friends in my living room. He added the coins, but that doesn't change (or in my opinion add to) the effect at all. Same goes for Simon Pegg - maybe the producers thought it needed punching up. If anything, unless Jay was involved in this somehow from a support perspective, I think if I created a trick and saw someone else use it nearly ver batim to fool P&T and win prizes... I'd be a little miffed. Just my two cents. Hoping the show gets back to highlighting original creations and single effects. Though even if it doesn't, I'll still tune in, as it is wonderfully done otherwise and it's terrific to see magic enjoying the spotlight on TV.
KristoBall
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Wow - lots of unintentional puns in that last post - watch/rewatch, coins/change - I guess I'm ready to start naming magic tricks.
barts185
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2015, KristoBall wrote:
Hi Poof, replied to your PM but thought I should correct my post here as well - it seems I mixed up performer names and was a bit ambiguous in my critique. I was meaning to comment on the watch performance - I didn't rewatch to snag the performner's actual name - but that watch trick was revealed, among other ways, on Joshua Jay's Penguin LIVE lecture. I guess my larger point - and I am a huge fan of this show, and Wizard Wars (Masters of Illusion, not so much, except perhaps for a handful of standout routines and some unintentional comedy from Dean Cain) - is that I much prefer it when you see an inventor like Farquhar showcase original material to try to fool them. One trick, created by the performer - that's the best setup I think. Buying a trick on Penguin and performing it for Penn & Teller doesn't seem that compelling (at least to magicians who know things like this). It also feels like taking credit for the inventor's work unless you REALLY change up the routine and make it your own. The watch routine is one I do for friends in my living room. He added the coins, but that doesn't change (or in my opinion add to) the effect at all. Same goes for Simon Pegg - maybe the producers thought it needed punching up. If anything, unless Jay was involved in this somehow from a support perspective, I think if I created a trick and saw someone else use it nearly ver batim to fool P&T and win prizes... I'd be a little miffed. Just my two cents. Hoping the show gets back to highlighting original creations and single effects. Though even if it doesn't, I'll still tune in, as it is wonderfully done otherwise and it's terrific to see magic enjoying the spotlight on TV.


Although Joshua teaches this (apparently all over the place - live lectures, online lectures, wherever), the watch effect is by Liam Montier. Even on vanishingincmagic it says, "Created by Liam Montier, with Andi Gladwin and Joshua Jay".

If you don't want to see someone else perform your trick, don't sell it.

Penn didn't correctly describe how the watch was gimmicked - it's definitely not what he was describing where you have a watch that doesn't change the time by twisting the crown (the dial on the side). I think that Frederick Falk should have gotten the trophy.
theleehathaway
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Sorry, but I don't believe for a moment that this fooled P&T. The technique on display here is well known to any fairly well read card magician - and whilst it's true that Kostya does it beautifully and invisibly, he's also well known for being amongst the best - if not - the best in the world at it. It's also true that it feels like real magic to watch (even when you know what's going on - and I've seen him do it live many times) BUT with this and recently Greg Wilson being declared as 'Foolers' it does feel slightly disingenuous to the few of us that *actually* created something that fooled them.
KristoBall
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Bart's - thanks for they clarification on the original source of the effect! I agree whole heartedly with your post. However I still don't think that should have counted as a "fooled us" moment - for if able to inspect the watch I believe they would have quickly deduced HOW it was gimmicked (which didn't look so hot with its TV closeup by the way). You are probably right about not selling the trick if you don't want others to perform it - just seeing it used in a competition that I think is primarily intended for original material is disappointing, that's all. I still love the show.
David Todd
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Quote:
On Aug 19, 2015, theleehathaway wrote:
Sorry, but I don't believe for a moment that this fooled P&T. The technique on display here is well known to any fairly well read card magician - and whilst it's true that Kostya does it beautifully and invisibly, he's also well known for being amongst the best - if not - the best in the world at it. It's also true that it feels like real magic to watch (even when you know what's going on - and I've seen him do it live many times) BUT with this and recently Greg Wilson being declared as 'Foolers' it does feel slightly disingenuous to the few of us that *actually* created something that fooled them.


I wonder if Kostaya's flawless technique really did fool them (or at least fooled Penn !), or if they simply decided not to get into the specifics which would involve exposure ? I do think Season 1 was stronger in terms of the magicians who appeared on the show actually working hard to FOOL (really fool) Penn & Teller . When the production moved from the UK to Las Vegas for Season 2 I think the emphasis shifted to presenting some great magic acts (Mac King for example) who had absolutely no intention of "fooling" P & T , but were booked purely for entertainment value (nothing wrong with that , but the "contest" aspect of the show has now been undermined.) However, I am glad that the show is continuing . It's nice to see so much great magic on television.


.
landmark
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Aaarrghh! Pre-empted here in New York due to Major League Baseball. Whatever that is.


Quote:
I wonder if Kostaya's flawless technique really did fool them (or at least fooled Penn !), or if they simply decided not to get into the specifics which would involve exposure ?


C'mon, do you really think that if they knew the method, Penn could resist comments like "That almost slid by us" or "Doing what you did that well is what separates the pros from the amateurs"?

And so on.
Alex McInroy
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Some other people have mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree, that the producers probably never wanted a show entirely about fooling Penn and Teller. Take away the fooling aspect and you get the same great magic with a much smaller audience. So they have a show presenting great magic with a "schtick" that really gets people sucked in. I love Wizard Wars but I remember being disappointed when Penn and Teller didn't dissect one of the acts. I was genuinely interested in whether they were fooled.

But more importantly, I think as long as 1 or 2 acts are really trying to fool P&T each show, they're in a good place. There were some acts on season 1 that were all about fooling through many moving parts with no intention of ever being entertaining. That is far worse in my opinion.
KristoBall
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Yeah good point - on season 1 there were a ton of acts that ripped rapid fire through mini effects, if you will, or cloaking the real method by apparently tipping false ones - like winning on a technicality. Also agree that the larger conceit is to get entertaining magic on TV moreso than being a competition to win a Vegas spot. Maybe by season 3 it will all come together with these little refinements. I think the host Jonathan Ross does a very nice job.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2015, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I am happy to see more and more magicians (on this show and other TV appearances) using Phoenix Brand Playing Cards. The fact that they are seen on TV helps them not look so "out of the ordinary" although the few times I have even been asked about them, I just say "I picked these up at the dollar store cheap" and once (only once) someone commented on the space on one side (the built in one way feature) and I quickly came back with "That is probably why they were so cheap at the dollar store - factory misprints" no more questions Smile


So them being used specifically on a magic special on TV and nowhere else somehow makes them seem less "out of the ordinary" to you? OK.
Danny Doyle
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barts185
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Penn Talks About Being Fooled by Kostya Kimlat on Fool Us

barts185
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Quote:
On Aug 19, 2015, KristoBall wrote:
Bart's - thanks for they clarification on the original source of the effect! I agree whole heartedly with your post. However I still don't think that should have counted as a "fooled us" moment - for if able to inspect the watch I believe they would have quickly deduced HOW it was gimmicked (which didn't look so hot with its TV closeup by the way). You are probably right about not selling the trick if you don't want others to perform it - just seeing it used in a competition that I think is primarily intended for original material is disappointing, that's all. I still love the show.


I like the show a lot as well. Even if people aren't trying to fool P&T, it's great to have a show with entertaining magic that's not trying to be about pranks, camera tricks, stooges, etc.

Regarding whether or not he should have received the coveted FU trophy, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If they inspected the watch, they would see a watch with no hands, where they could turn the crown as much as they wanted. If saying the watch was gimmicked and wrongly describing how it was gimmicked was good enough, why not just say that Kostya used sleight of hand and have that be enough?
Alex McInroy
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Quote:
On Aug 20, 2015, barts185 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 19, 2015, KristoBall wrote:
Bart's - thanks for they clarification on the original source of the effect! I agree whole heartedly with your post. However I still don't think that should have counted as a "fooled us" moment - for if able to inspect the watch I believe they would have quickly deduced HOW it was gimmicked (which didn't look so hot with its TV closeup by the way). You are probably right about not selling the trick if you don't want others to perform it - just seeing it used in a competition that I think is primarily intended for original material is disappointing, that's all. I still love the show.


I like the show a lot as well. Even if people aren't trying to fool P&T, it's great to have a show with entertaining magic that's not trying to be about pranks, camera tricks, stooges, etc.

Regarding whether or not he should have received the coveted FU trophy, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If they inspected the watch, they would see a watch with no hands, where they could turn the crown as much as they wanted. If saying the watch was gimmicked and wrongly describing how it was gimmicked was good enough, why not just say that Kostya used sleight of hand and have that be enough?


I think they sort of had to know how it was gimmicked because he showed them. I feel Penn may have been referring to the fact that most people don't wear analog watches and even if they did, he couldn't borrow them. I caught the move he did but I was looking for a switch that never came. If he had not had the hands vanish, I think Penn and Teller would have guessed wrong and maybe he could have eked his way through.

Also, that video above explains a lot. Thanks for posting.
Robert M
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I'm also surprised Kostya's version of Triumph fooled Teller - if it really did. Kostya is so well known for his culling technique. That was great, though. They seemed to be genuinely fooled.

I'm wondering what Rising Card effect that was with a Phoenix deck? Anyone know what that was??

Robert
barts185
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A nice write-up by Kostya about this and magic in general:

https://thinklikeamagician.wordpress.com......nn-high/
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