I feel like there are just as many skeptics of the "Holy Grail" of mentalism as there are believers. For the longest time, David Berglas's "ACAAN" has been considered the Holy Grail by a large portion of our community. Do you feel that the Holy Grail is out there? Have you ever truly seen an effect that seemed completely impossible? What if one of us in this tightly knit community truly came up with the Holy Grail? Would you believe them that they did or call them out?

-Vlad

Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMUnbNPCoSw

The Holy Grail is NOT the goal.

The only thing that advances the art is the quest.

Mastermindreader is right. I'm new here but I've been in the business for awhile. I started out as the exact person that this forum was built to keep out. I fell in love with Derren Brown's work and I just wanted quick answers so that I could be like him with minimal effort. I never gave up, though, and almost a decade later I've realized that I am my own person with my own personality and my own individual performance and effect preferences. I have about 5 hours of material now and I still don't know how to do a single one of the "tricks" I wanted to learn.

I'm sure that my own personal Holy Grail is out there (in fact, I could probably guess it's name) but right now I'm at a level where it doesn't matter. From what I've learned, I have the ability to turn a simple card trick into an impossible mind reading illusion that would begin someone like me on the very same journey. I do hope to one day soon find what I've been looking for this whole time but I also hope that by then I have discovered a new journey because I wouldn't be here if I didn't have the end goal, no matter how far away it was.

I think the Holy Grail is not an effect.
It is in the way you perform an effect.

Give a 5000,- dollar piece of electronic equipement to a beginner and watch him fail.
Give a piece of paper and a pen to a pro and watch him do the impossible.

Hi Vlad,

you say that
That to me implies that you might have something different in mind when you talk about a "Holy Grail".
What do YOU mean by "Holy Grail"?

Also:

I mean, hopefully every single one of us should have at least at one point in his life experienced something like that.
Otherwise we wouldn't have invested the insane amount of time in this very special performing art.
Often we are disappointed at first that what we learn might not be what we hoped to learn in the first place.
But over time we find something different in it for us.

To be honest I don't quite understand the intention of your post.
Why does it has to have this pseudo-religious tone to it?
Or is this the beginning of a sales pitch?
In that case it makes sense of course.

All the best,

Axel

The berglas effect was considered a grail effect by many. Then we found out the method and realised it was mostly legend and retelling.

The grail is the quest. Methods disappoint.

For me the holy grail has nothing to do with an effect or performance, although the latter helps with achieving what I do consider the grail.

Audience experience decides if something is a holy grail and they decide if it is your holy grail. I guess for many, the holy grail is an effect that should even fool magicians, but to me the holy grail is the effect that truly makes them believe in magic.
In that thought, I guess there can me more then one holy grail.

Comments here prompted as search of several definition sources -- to see if the modern/popular usage has changed.

Sadly, many sources, especially online ones, equate "quest" with "search.'

My unabridged offers: "a long search for something that is difficult to find, or an attempt to achieve something difficult"

So, some musing not meant to tell anyone else how to conduct their own search or quest.

For me, this exemplifies what is happening to the mystic arts in recent decades. It is easy to "search" for a new trick, gimmick or "must have" effect. With the ease of acquisition comes devaluation of objective.

The ability to create astonishment and a long term memory of a "real experience" takes more than the "right effect" or even "how it is presented."

The quest of the performer to create the conditions for this to occur is matched to the quest of the observer to have this experience.

Since the expectations of an audience is ever-changing or feckless or unfocused, the questing performer can guide and mold and prepare the observer in subtle ways for "the moment."

One possible consideration for a Mentalist is "is this audience on a quest for validation of pre-held belief in paranormal?" or just "on a quest for entertainment of any kind?"

One solution is to attract audiences that are known to be on the first quest and then allow your quest to "make the most of the opportunity" fill that need.

A Magician may often attract an audience of the second kind or those specifically questing to experience the impossible for a fleeting moment. Big difference.

IT may be trite to say "know thyself" "know your audience" "know your weapon," but of such things is the concept of "gird your loins" as part of the quest.

The "grail" is seen by those who expected to see it, and are prepared to sacrifice something on the journey.

a remembered line -- "Those would search for the key to a door will miss the sunrise through the window."

Or. "those that try too hard often have headaches on the toilet"...

Listen, and understand. That holy grail is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you find it.

There's another discussion just a few threads away from here about the Magic Squ*re effect. Some performers love it...including the great Harry Lorayne. Others despise it, or can't understand why anyone would choose it when there's so much "better" material out there.

I think there is a HG (or several of them) out there for everyone...but it's going to be a different "Grail" for each performer because each performer is different.

By the way...I like browneyed's attitude. It's great to see newcomers to this forum approach mentalist with respect and forethought.

David

Perhaps the grail is: enjoying what you do and getting paid for it ($ or non-monetary in a way that feel just and good being recognized for something you do) - your audience enjoying what you do and taking it as an experience to reflect on - and that you make friends and colleagues along the way....

The grail heals that which cannot be healed

Now what is the Spear of Destiny in Mentalism????

That's your "signature effect" that you become known for.

This is close to the start of the answer for me.

The holy grail is a term used to represent something that is intensely desirable yet seemingly perpetually out of reach.

An effect, in its bare form, is not this.
However, many of us have observed a performance of an effect that in execution, subtlety, mastery of context and mood, etc. rendered the effect worthy of consideration as the "holy grail", at least for a time.

And behind the effect is the method. As Sean says above, methods disappoint.

When you learn the method to this impressive performance, you acquire a superficial understanding of how, technically, to reproduce the effect. All the required movements of space and time have (hopefully) become apparent. But it's not sufficient for you to map this simple recipe on to a new moment and expect it to fit.
How much still stands between your understanding and the effect you witnessed? What perseverance, experience, sheer luck or spontaneous insight must occur in order to achieve something greater than a distorted facsimile of the moment that inspired you?

To me, this is the holy grail - any moment in which the effect, not just the fulfilment of a "trick's" premise and plot, but the consciously intended effect is proactively rendered, and at the same time allowed to arise. When your vision is fulfilled, perhaps in a way that even surprises you.

Our relationship to such a moment is asymptotic. We desire it and approach it seemingly endlessly.

In other artistic disciplines you might find from time to time that while others would say you have created something, it also undeniably created itself in some way. This is the kind of thing that I mean.

Forgive the ramblings of a newcomer.

"You" are the Holy Grail, or not.

The quest, to me, is simple- It's got nothing to do with an individual effect but is rather the never ending refinement of mentalism to bring it as close as possible to the true Holy Grail, real mind reading, while maintaining maximum entertainment value.

If I'm reading you correctly, Bob, are you saying the Holy Grail for a mentalist/psychic entertainer is "real mind reading?" If so, wouldn't that be like saying the holy grail for a magician is "real magic?" While maintaining maximum entertainment value, of course.

I understand, and agree with, the distinction you are making with never ending refinement of the art as "Holy Grail" but am not sure about the reference to real mind reading as the "true Holy Grail" in the context of entertainment. Perhaps in parapsychology but maybe I'm missing a nuance of the point you are trying to convey.

Bob is catching on!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you bill yourself as a mindreader, wouldn't seeming like a real mindreader be the ultimate Holy Grail? Not trying to put words in Mr. Cassidy's mouth, but that seems to be the ultimate of his stage persona. I think all mentalism, if it can look real achieves the ultimate goal. What else is there? Unless it's mental magic, then that is a whole other issue.