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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
When I had more contact in the world comedians
I learned the rough way what happens when you research. Magicians (not you) were known as using stock. I'm guessing the post on research was tongue in cheek. Though I do comedy, I can't always tell if someone is joking This is more true on line. The above is my experience and life lesson. Harris Still too old to know it all
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2015, Harris wrote: Harris, that word shouldn't be 'stock'. The word ishould be 'schlock'. And yes, I was kidding. That is a rather famous saying. I wish that I was bright enough to come up with something like that, but I fall into the 'schlock' category . |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
When I was first working on a cups and balls routine, I started out looking at as many examples as I could find. I learned most by watching the boring ones and then similar routines that I found entertaining. I then asked myself the following question: "why was I entertained by this routine and not by the other one?"
I actually wrote my answers in notebooks because it helps me think if I have to write. I didn't end up with a cups routine I liked all that well, and I have moved to different magic, but I learned a huge amount from watching the routines that were painful to watch. I agree with the intent I perceive from the OP. We can all learn from watching other performers. I don't do Silver Scepter (though I did buy one after getting Terry Herbert's DVD), but I learned a very valuable lesson from watching Terry Herbert entertain a group. As a matter of fact, the biggest pet peeve I have with instructional DVDs that are done in front of an audience is that most of them do not depict the flow of a performance, but only bits of the performance. So many DVDs would be very useful to me if they showed an uncut performance, even if they had no instruction to them at all! -Patrick |
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frankieacemagic Elite user 498 Posts |
What do you guys think of Chad Chesmark? I watch some of his stuff. Good sense of humor I think. I know nothing about him.
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2015, jakeg wrote: Said by notorious Soapy Smith henchman and playwright Wilson Mizner... |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
The "other" line is: "ORIGINALITY IS THE ART OF CONCEALING YOUR SOURCE!" (I don't know whose line that is/was!:)
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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migwar Elite user west yorkshire, UK 457 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 8, 2015, frankieacemagic wrote: Funny you mention him, just saw a video of him doing Paul Daniels chop cup pretty much verbatum. He did it quite well actually. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
I think the original idea of posting shows was a good one. I don't have a video of my show, but I do have a series of clips that show a full hour show from start to finish, in sequence. Just watch them in sequence and you get a full version of my show as performed about three years ago, in a small theatre in Dublin for an awkward audience. For some reason one puppet routine is ommitted:
https://youtu.be/v4IUIzlrhLk https://youtu.be/V56TnmCaqpY https://youtu.be/Zpor7BeZBN4 https://youtu.be/Wfd0RsJ55Pg https://youtu.be/k-mfG_qb0x4
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
Tony .... I watched your show, and I want to make a suggestion: Don't change it, it's fantastic. You get more out of your audience with a show that you can fit into your pocket than most magi can with a stage full of props. When people talk about hot the routine and resonality is the most important thing, I'm going to point them to your post. (In case you can't tell, I was completely blown away. Thanks for the lesson.)
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Thanks, Jakeg. Really appreciate that.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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Karen Climer Veteran user Orlando, Florida 324 Posts |
This thread started with someone posting a YouTube link and saying he thought that watching other people's shows was a great way to learn. Then a few people say things about how watching other people's shows is cheating, not creative, we don't need more copy cats, etc.
Why is it that so many performers automatically assume that if you watch someone else's show, it is because you want to copy it? When an author reads a book, do people automatically assume he is looking for ideas he can steal? Of course not. That's crazy. If you had never seen a magic show, you wouldn't have gotten into magic. But now, once you are in magic, you can't watch another kids performer because that means you will copy it? I don't get it. I love watching other people's shows. I learn things that have nothing to do with copying a routine. Maybe I learn something because of the way they handle volunteers, or the way they take the audience on an emotional roller coaster ride, or the way they sell themselves throughout the show. There are hundreds of things that go into a good show other than the routine. Let's say I like the way you handle volunteers. I can't do it the same way because I'm not you, but it could still help me improve the way I do it. THAT IS NOT COPYING!!! There is not one performer on this forum who has not been influenced by seeing other performers. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Sam Sandler even said that people watch other magicians because they don't want to work hard to be creative and original. What?!?! Why can't you do both? Watch other magicians AND be creative and original. In fact I would argue that the more magicians you watch and the more varied they are in the way they do things, the MORE it will help you become creative and original. I would encourage any magician - whether just starting out or and old pro - to watch as many other magicians and other performers as you can find. Watch live performances and videos. To do otherwise, would be like trying to be a good writer without every reading other people's works. The best writers are the ones who read the most themselves. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Well said Karen, agreed. I'm also an artist, should I not look at other peoples art? Sometimes though I just have to pull back the reins when I see a gag or routine I like and stop myself from using it. You can also learn what NOT to do, even from someone who is otherwise excellent. That happened at Kidabra - I saw an excellent well respected performer do a show I really like, but he did a few things that I think he shouldn't have done.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
I disagree on several points with the last 2 posts.
Whether you personally would use someone else's routine, ot not, is immaterial . There is no question that people are using material out of other performer's shows, with or without permission . Look at some popular kids routines: just about all sucker routines are performed exactly as per written instructions. Silver scepter - clean the rod, the rod rises, look don't see, case flies, up the nose, etc., break away wands & fans of every variety, and you can go on & on. Even the bits of business that we used come from things we either saw or read. I never bur a trick unless I see it or read about it first and feel that it will fit into what I'm doing. I usually start out doing it as written, and over time, it will, hopefully, evolve into something else, usually using things that I saw somewhere else. Some of us are actors who need a script. Others are writers who are original and need someone to bring their scripts to life, and a very few have the ability to do both, and be successful at it. Unfortunately, I'm not one of the best few. That's why I have DVDs, books and manuscripts in my bookcase. There is no doubt that people search YouTube looking to improve their own show. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
On the side I do a bit of writing, and I have ready many books about writing. Most include this one essential bit of advice; if you want to be a writer, be a reader. All great writers read voraciously.
I would suggest the same applies to magic. If you want to be a magician, watch magic shows.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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Quentin Inner circle 1020 Posts |
Contrary to what TonyB has written every book I have read on writing suggested that if you want to be a writer, write.
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Karen Climer Veteran user Orlando, Florida 324 Posts |
I agree with Jakeg that there are people who watch youtube and go to other's shows with the intent of copying something. My problem is the attitude that some magicians have that if you watch someone else's show, it MUST be because you are trying to steal it. Why else would you want to watch another performer? As an analogy, there are people who walk into a retail store with the intent of stealing something. That is why they walked into the stole. But if someone posted on here that they were going to the store to pick up some milk, would you assume they were going to steal the milk? Probably not. But if someone posts on here that they watch a show on youtube, people get all excited and say there is too much routine-theft (is that a word?) in magic.
The way to get good a writing is to read AND write, you have to do both. Likewise, the way to get good at performing magic is to practice your own show and watch other people's shows. It's not one or the other - and neither is more important than the other. It takes both to be good. |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
I think most magicians steal too little, and steal the wrong things, and in general are terrible thieves. All art is theft.
Amateurs are the worst thieves, and gain the least from it. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Glad to see you on here Pop. Please keep posting. I guess I have permission to steal your whole act? Kidding, I wouldn't do that.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
It is all for sale. You would be better off stealing. Everything most magicians learn about copying and theft is wrong.
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 19, 2015, Quentin wrote: “If you don't have time to read, you don't have the time (or the tools) to write. Simple as that.” ― Stephen King “Reading usually precedes writing and the impulse to write is almost always fired by reading. Reading, the love of reading, is what makes you dream of becoming a writer.” — Susan Sontag “I always advise children who ask me for tips on being a writer to read as much as they possibly can. Jane Austen gave a young friend the same advice, so I’m in good company there.” - J.K. Rowling, “The Six Golden Rules of Writing: Read, read, read, and write, write, write.” — Ernest Gaines The advice is almost universal, Quentin. And I suggest it applies to magic equally. You need to watch other performers to become a good performer yourself.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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